Hello all, Rob Carr schrieb: Thinking about it, the EMS personnel may have chosen milk, not because the patient was in such an "extreme" hypoglycemic state, but because she was in such a mild state.

or they were using it, because it was closer by, instead of everything else. I remember US-supermarkets to be very large, so instead of running around for 5 minutes, just grab whats close by and "adequate". best wishes andy r.

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   I saw milk used in a Krogers.  The lady went down and couldn’t get up but she was awake.  The EMS grabbed milk from the dairy area and used it to bring her back.   I report this episode not as a primer on EMS but a warning to milk drinkers.  I was surprised at the EMS response cause I thought milk was on the slow side (theory only).  After that episode, I started experimenting with my breakfast oatmeal and found that I too respond very rapidly to milk.

Even when I first started with diabetes, milk didn’t cause me problems. Since it only contains 13 g. of carbohydrate per 8 oz (skim), it’s wasn’t hard for me to tolerate even early on.  Looking back on my notes from my CDE, she was the one who suggested the milk for breakfast. Thinking about it, the EMS personnel may have chosen milk, not because the patient was in such an "extreme" hypoglycemic state, but because she was in such a mild state. Rather than blowing her BG sky high (the traditional response by EMS to hypoglycemia), the medic may have been smart enough to realize that even the traditional glass of OJ may would have overdone things. The milk, because it contains sugar, protein, and (assuming the medic didn’t go for skim) fat, would have had a longer-term effect on the patient’s BG. Of course, it may simply have been that the patient went down in the dairy isle and the OJ wasn’t nearby. I don’t know how Krogers is laid out. Strangely enough, I know a paramedic who used to manage a Krogers. — Rob I’m running for my life! Rome Marathon to raise money for the ADA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Buttermilk or regular milk (all kinds, skim, whole, etc) are such fast carbs that Emergency Medical Services use them as antidotes for extreme hypoglycemic episodes. No EMS service would ever dare use anything given orally in the case of an extreme hypoglycemic episode. The patient cannot protect the airway and the result might be aspiration, if not respiratory arrest. In the case of a patient unresponsive to glucagon and without IV access and with the patient intubated, an NG tube could be placed and a glucose solution administered.  That’s still not considered "oral." The preferred method is the administration of D50 by IV push through a reliable IV site. D50 infiltration is to be avoided. If an IV site cannot be secured, glucagon is used in some systems as a drug of last resort or, in some cases, when the patient is too violent for the establishment of an IV. . . . For the patient who is still capable of protecting the airway, oral administration can be used, although with extreme caution. A sudden decrease in the level of consciousness of the patient can turn a simple case of hypoglycemia into an iatrogenic disaster. I personally dislike glucose tablets and gels for this reason – they can make airway control exceptionally difficult if the patient crashes. As far as fluids given to the awake patient protecting their own airway, often the fluid used is the fluid at hand.  I’ve heard reports of orange juice, Coke, milk, buttermilk, coffee, and Lactated Ringers. In the case of the last 4, sugar was added to increase the amount of sugar available to the patient. I don’t want to think about sugared buttermilk. Lactated Ringers has such a foul taste that I cannot understand why IV acces was not used instead. Orange juice or soft drinks or sugar water are the usual methods, again with sugar added if possible. — Rob

   I saw milk used in a Krogers.  The lady went down and couldn’t get up but she was awake.  The EMS grabbed milk from the dairy area and used it to bring her back.   I report this episode not as a primer on EMS but a warning to milk drinkers.  I was surprised at the EMS response cause I thought milk was on the slow side (theory only).  After that episode, I started experimenting with my breakfast oatmeal and found that I too respond very rapidly to milk. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

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Buttermilk or regular milk (all kinds, skim, whole, etc) are such fast carbs that Emergency Medical Services use them as antidotes for extreme hypoglycemic episodes.

No EMS service would ever dare use anything given orally in the case of an extreme hypoglycemic episode. The patient cannot protect the airway and the result might be aspiration, if not respiratory arrest. In the case of a patient unresponsive to glucagon and without IV access and with the patient intubated, an NG tube could be placed and a glucose solution administered.  That’s still not considered "oral." Trust me, the comments about administering D50 down the endotracheal tube are meant as a joke. It’s typical medic gallows humor, and a poor choice at that. There’s bound to be some moron that would not get the joke and actually try it. <shudder The preferred method is the administration of D50 by IV push through a reliable IV site. D50 infiltration is to be avoided. If an IV site cannot be secured, glucagon is used in some systems as a drug of last resort or, in some cases, when the patient is too violent for the establishment of an IV. For the patient who is still capable of protecting the airway, oral administration can be used, although with extreme caution. A sudden decrease in the level of consciousness of the patient can turn a simple case of hypoglycemia into an iatrogenic disaster. I personally dislike glucose tablets and gels for this reason – they can make airway control exceptionally difficult if the patient crashes. As far as fluids given to the awake patient protecting their own airway, often the fluid used is the fluid at hand.  I’ve heard reports of orange juice, Coke, milk, buttermilk, coffee, and Lactated Ringers. In the case of the last 4, sugar was added to increase the amount of sugar available to the patient. I don’t want to think about sugared buttermilk. Lactated Ringers has such a foul taste that I cannot understand why IV acces was not used instead. Orange juice or soft drinks or sugar water are the usual methods, again with sugar added if possible. — Rob I’m running for my life! Rome Marathon to raise money for the ADA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Old Al, Old Al schrieb:  Buttermilk or regular milk (all kinds, skim, whole, etc) are such fast carbs that Emergency Medical Services use them as antidotes for extreme hypoglycemic episodes. nope, emergency medical services use glucose intravenous, if unconscious or the patient is not able to swallow. If the patient is still able to react, I have seen glucose tablets and/or fruit juice. Fruit juice has about 2 to 3 times as many carbs as milk, so the amount is much smaller. I have never seen milk used, but then again, different coutries, different practices. best wishes for the next millenium andy r.

    I saw an EMS team use milk once.  Surprised me at the time but then my struggle with 9 am highs became a bit more understandable.   In the U.S., EMS also carries a tube of glucose suspension with the consistency of toothpaste.  They will work to squirt(?) it into the mouth of the semi-functional patients.  Saw that once too.  The tube is 50 gram of glucose but as much or more ends up on the outside of the patient as the inside.  Bright pink.  Everybody in the medical team knows it’s been used.  There are some clever people in that field. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

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Hi Old Al, Old Al schrieb:  Buttermilk or regular milk (all kinds, skim, whole, etc) are such fast carbs that Emergency Medical Services use them as antidotes for extreme hypoglycemic episodes.

nope, emergency medical services use glucose intravenous, if unconscious or the patient is not able to swallow. If the patient is still able to react, I have seen glucose tablets and/or fruit juice. Fruit juice has about 2 to 3 times as many carbs as milk, so the amount is much smaller. I have never seen milk used, but then again, different coutries, different practices. best wishes for the next millenium andy r.

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type II, 500 mg glucophage x2

 In response to Andy’s comments on buttermilk for breakfast i.e. Ted said Lately, I’ve been drinking about 1/2 cup of buttermilk with my meds in the morning, hoping this is better for me than fruit juice.

  Andy replied to Ted buttermilk contains the same amount of carbs as regular milk, that being 12g carbs for 250 ml (about 1/2 pint). Many of the fruit juices available here in Germany are counted as 12g carbs per 100 ml. What type diabetes do you have? Do you take insulin or oral meds or just diet and exercise? Neither the milk nor the fruit juices are "bad". But all liquids have a very rapid effect on the BG. Personally I only drink fruit juices when I have a hypo, because I refuse to shoot insulin for drinks when I could rather have something to eat. best wishes andy r.

   Ted:  Buttermilk or regular milk (all kinds, skim, whole, etc) are such fast carbs that Emergency Medical Services use them as antidotes for extreme hypoglycemic episodes.   I am a humalog insulin shooter.  Therefore, I can get by (but only barely) with diluted milk (2/3 milk, 1/3 water) in my morning oatmeal. I could not do that when I was on glucophage. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

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typeII, 500 mg glucophage x2 Ted

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ted, ted schrieb: Lately, I’ve been drinking about 1/2 cup of buttermilk with my meds in the morning, hoping this is better for me than fruit juice. buttermilk contains the same amount of carbs as regular milk, that being 12g carbs for 250 ml (about 1/2 pint). Many of the fruit juices available here in Germany are counted as 12g carbs per 100 ml. What type diabetes do you have? Do you take insulin or oral meds or just diet and exercise? Neither the milk nor the fruit juices are "bad". But all liquids have a very rapid effect on the BG. Personally I only drink fruit juices when I have a hypo, because I refuse to shoot insulin for drinks when I could rather have something to eat. best wishes andy r.

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Hi Ted, ted schrieb: Lately, I’ve been drinking about 1/2 cup of buttermilk with my meds in the morning, hoping this is better for me than fruit juice.  

buttermilk contains the same amount of carbs as regular milk, that being 12g carbs for 250 ml (about 1/2 pint). Many of the fruit juices available here in Germany are counted as 12g carbs per 100 ml. What type diabetes do you have? Do you take insulin or oral meds or just diet and exercise? Neither the milk nor the fruit juices are "bad". But all liquids have a very rapid effect on the BG. Personally I only drink fruit juices when I have a hypo, because I refuse to shoot insulin for drinks when I could rather have something to eat. best wishes andy r.

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I’ve been having problems with morning highs.  I’ve stopped eating breakfast until I actually start getting hungry, about 2-3 hrs after I wake up.  I was told, on this ng, that I really need to break my fast and have something to eat.  Lately, I’ve been drinking about 1/2 cup of buttermilk with my meds in the morning, hoping this is better for me than fruit juice.  Then, when I do get hungry, I eat some peanuts or some of those cute little baby carrots. Or maybe I’ll have some fat-free yogurt.  This seems to help some.  I had hbaic test done today.  Doc will call next week with results. I loooove buttermilk, so I’m sure it’s not good for me.  Like all the other foods I really like. Ted.  No, not THAT Ted.

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Gestational diabetes has been mentioned here before. Two questions: 1) Is it linked to IR-type diabetes? Ie, does being IR & borderline diabetic *anyway* increase your chance of developing the gestational variety?

Quoting (translating) without permission from my pregnancy book:    Pregnancy is a condition which makes potential diabetes manifest    itself.  Some of the hormones produced by the placenta (especially    HCS) place an added burden on the carbohydrate metabolism of the    pregnant woman.  These hormones reduce the efficacy of insulin.  The    amount of insulin secreted from the pancreas increases, but it    doesn’t do its job properly and that causes a rise in blood sugar.    Most women can handle this problem, but about three percent of them    have their carbohydrate metabolism seriously disrupted. Sounds to me like a perfect description of IR escalating into diabetes. 2) Does it tend to go away after the pregnancy is over?

Quoting again:    Gestational diabetes will usually disappear at the end of pregnancy.    50-60 percent of women who’ve had GD are at risk of having it [not    clear whether he means GD or DM here] appear again within 16 years.    Those who went so far as to require insulin shots during pregnancy    are at an even higher risk. 3) Does being low carb prior to the pregnancy reduce its likelihood?

   Funny, my book doesn’t talk about that at all…    Anyway, I would suspect it would help, but even more important would be staying low-carb *during* the pregnancy.  Not ketotic, maybe, but staying away from high-glycemic foods, at the very least. HTH, Orit in Israel 156 (3-Jan-99) / 110 (9-July-99), Atkins — Posting from DejaNews because my newsfeed’s broken again. Before you buy.

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deja.com writes <snippety snippety stuff about pregnancy & diabetes …distilling all that lot, it seems that what it comes down to is yes, I am at risk, but if I get it, it will probably go away after the pregnancy, but not definitely; low carb is the way to keep it under control just as it is for the normal IR-type diabetes, and, dammit, it’s up to me whether I want to risk it. Thanks for the replies. I’m clearer now. Anyway, why shouldn’t Arch-Bitches reproduce?!  <evil cackle — Rosiebint, Arch-Bitch-Tribble from Hell 262/206.5/162 Atkins since 10th June 1999

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cast aside the chawdron and deciphered the logogriph thusly: Gestational diabetes has been mentioned here before. Two questions: 1) Is it linked to IR-type diabetes? Ie, does being IR & borderline diabetic *anyway* increase your chance of developing the gestational variety?

Yes, most definitely.   2) Does it tend to go away after the pregnancy is over?

Usually, yes.  I had gestational diabetes with my third pregnancy in 1991 and it resolved completely within just a few days. It was in 1996 that I was diagnosed with ‘borderline’ diabetes/hyperinsulinemia after putting on some more weight again.   3) Does being low carb prior to the pregnancy reduce its likelihood?

One would think so in theory but that I honestly don’t know. Ok, that was three. So sue me

Sue an Arch Bitch Tribble From Hell? You must be joking! Cheryl ~~~Remember…your relatives had no choice in the matter        either!~~~

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Gestational diabetes has been mentioned here before. Two questions: 1) Is it linked to IR-type diabetes? Ie, does being IR & borderline diabetic *anyway* increase your chance of developing the gestational variety? 2) Does it tend to go away after the pregnancy is over? 3) Does being low carb prior to the pregnancy reduce its likelihood? Ok, that was three. So sue me — Rosiebint, Arch-Bitch-Tribble from Hell 262/208/162 & waiting for the Fat Dragon to visit Atkins since 10th June 1999

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I had it and read everything I could get my hands on about it, so I will tell you what I remember. Of course, she will be 7 in July so it may well be out of date. Gestational diabetes has been mentioned here before. Two questions: 1) Is it linked to IR-type diabetes? Ie, does being IR & borderline diabetic *anyway* increase your chance of developing the gestational variety?

Yes. If you have Type I or II in your family tree you are fr more likely to get gestation diabetes than if not. More so if any of theirs started in childhood. The reverse is true as well, if you get gestation diabetes, you are far more likely to develop diabetes later on. 2) Does it tend to go away after the pregnancy is over?

Instantly. You will probably stay an extra day in the hospital to keep an eye on you and your baby, but you should be done with it. You will need to watch your sugars for a few days, just in case. 3) Does being low carb prior to the pregnancy reduce its likelihood?

I don’t know this, but I imagine it would. Ok, that was three. So sue me

How much are you worth? : ) — Rosiebint, Arch-Bitch-Tribble from Hell

Arch-Bitch anythings should not reproduce anyway. : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 262/208/162 & waiting for the Fat Dragon to visit Atkins since 10th June 1999

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(in response to a post of mine) Hi, is there anything like an exchange unit of carbs used in Germany (1 ‘carb unit’ = 12 grams of carbs)?

I’m not sure whether your geography is screwed up, or whether your English is.. I have an account than ends .uk  I’m in the UK.  I assume, because you have an account that ends nasa.gov, you’re in the US.  You can no more assume that because I’m in the UK that I know what’s done in Germany, than I can assume because you are in the US, you know what’s done in Mexico. But I think you know where I am … because I remember vaguely that in Germany, there is a concept of a ‘unit of CHO’ – 12g of CHO, and foods are listed as being Xg = 1 ‘unit of CHO’ (there was an old system in the UK where the ‘unit’ was 10g CHO. So I wonder if you just missed out a few vital words: e.g.  ’is there anything IN THE UK like … The answer is: yes, at least there used to be, a quarter of a century ago.  Then we used 10g CHO as the basic unit.  Which is fine, if you find that 1 unit of Humalog covers 1 unit CHO (as I now do) and a pain, if you find (as I did) that 1 unit of Regular covers 1.25 units units/ Some of us find that 1 unit covers 10g at breakfast, and 15g at lunch and dinner.  …. all of which goes to show that using an artificial ‘unit’ of CHO, rather than real grams, is a bit silly (i.e. it’s useful, and mirrors what most people do in their minds, but assumes that all people find the same ratio of insulin to CHO, and therefore doesn’t do what should be done, and encourage each to work out their own ‘unit’.) There are booklets which give you the amount of different food containing 12 g of carbs (eg 80 g of banana)Then you only proceed with the amounts of these units: Having 1 banana of 180 g makes 2 (+1/4) ‘carb units’ to be covered by insulin / included in meal schedule. I have encountered the famous food pyramid several times which refers to ’servings’ as a unit (without a clear definition). Is that a fixed unit (defined in (fl)oz, grams, calories or whatever), or is it relative due to the individually different total daily intake? Greetings,

– Pat Reynolds    "It might look a bit messy now, but just you come back in 500 years time"    (T. Pratchett)

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I had some cauliflower recently and tried to look it up on your list. It was not there. I tried persimmons, and it was not there. I know I looked for other foods in the past too. Can you tell me about cauliflower? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reinhard, No, Mendosa’s glycemic index list is by far the best one. It is, in fact, the ONLY complete listing. It lists everything that has been tested by the scientists. The only things "missing" are those that have never been tested. It is also just as well organized as Mendosa is. It is aligned perfectly. Perhaps you need to have your web page display differently. Is there a better glycemic index list than the Mendosa one? I find several items missing in it. It also looks very messy, it’s not aligned at all. Rick Mendosa, a Writer on the Web: http://www.mendosa.com/ Office: 660 Nobel Drive, Suite 3E, Santa Cruz, CA 95060-3152

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Sorry, I forgot to sign the above post. Dr Matt            International Diabetes Website http://www.idi.org.au

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Reinhard, No, Mendosa’s glycemic index list is by far the best one. It is, in fact, the ONLY complete listing. It lists everything that has been tested by the scientists. The only things "missing" are those that have never been tested. It is also just as well organized as Mendosa is. It is aligned perfectly. Perhaps you need to have your web page display differently. Is there a better glycemic index list than the Mendosa one? I find several items missing in it. It also looks very messy, it’s not aligned at all.

Rick Mendosa, a Writer on the Web: http://www.mendosa.com/ Office: 660 Nobel Drive, Suite 3E, Santa Cruz, CA 95060-3152

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (…) So if 100g of a typical apple has 15.25g in it, and you weigh it and find you’ve got 210 g, well, thats just 2 times the 100g (2x 15.25 is 30.5) and one times the 10g (1 x 1.525 is 1.525) add them together and you get 31.725. If unsure whether to go with percentages, or my method, try these sums, and see which is easier for you: If 100g of something has 12.34g CHO, and the portion is 354g calculate 12.34% of 354, or (3 x 12.5) + (half of 12.5) If 100g has 4.3g CHO, and the portion is 120g 4.3% of 120, or (1 x 4.3) + (2 x .43) – or a quarter of .43 – or just ignore it. Yes, my way is more inaccurate – but who needs to know that they are getting 43.6836 rather than 43.75 g CHO in the first example, or getting 5.16 with the percentage message in the first example, as opposed to my approximation of 5.13 in the second.  Indeed, who needs to know that they are getting 44g rather than 43g?  Most of us work to much rougher figures.  So rather than working with 12.34%, or ‘12.34g in 100g’, we work with ‘12%’ or ‘12g in 100g, 1g in 10g’, and so on. Best wishes, — Pat Reynolds

Hi, is there anything like an exchange unit of carbs used in Germany (1 ‘carb unit’ = 12 grams of carbs)? There are booklets which give you the amount of different food containing 12 g of carbs (eg 80 g of banana). Then you only proceed with the amounts of these units: Having 1 banana of 180 g makes 2 (+1/4) ‘carb units’ to be covered by insulin / included in meal schedule. I have encountered the famous food pyramid several times which refers to ’servings’ as a unit (without a clear definition). Is that a fixed unit (defined in (fl)oz, grams, calories or whatever), or is it relative due to the individually different total daily intake? Greetings, — Lutz Rast

I am looking for any diabetes related newsgroups.  Since we love RVing, Try "misc.health.diabetes" Chuck

My advice about the recommended newgroup is to put your filters on.  It has lots of good information for diabetics but it also has lots of garbage.  I’ve been a diabetic for 31 years and don’t allow it to keep me from enjoying traveling and outdoor sports.   Keep a positive attitude and learn to adjust for the changing lifestyle conditions. Larry If you don’t care where you are, you ain’t lost.

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I know this is not the site for this subject, but I am looking for any diabetes related newsgroups.  Since we love RVing, I thought this would be a place to start. THANKYOU!!!

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I know this is not the site for this subject, but I am looking for any diabetes related newsgroups.  Since we love RVing, I thought this would be a place to start. THANKYOU!!!

Try "misc.health.diabetes" Chuck

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Try going to DejaNews (search engine for newsgroups) and simply type Diabetes as your query.  It will return every article and every newgroup in which the word occurs.  If you wish to enter the newsgroup, simply go NAME". Good luck & happy camping, Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is not the site for this subject, but I am looking for any diabetes related newsgroups.  Since we love RVing, I thought this would be a place to start. THANKYOU!!!

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