Diabetes Talking

Question:

My father has been a type 1 diabetic for the past 40 years, up until about ~10 years ago he was using animal insulin, Toronto/Lente. He would fall into hypoglycemic seizure no more than once a year, sometimes he’d go 2-3 years without one.  He was switched by his doctor to human based insulin in the early/mid nineties, is now on Humulin U and Humalog H and ever since he has been having very frequent seizures, in the order of 15+ a year. He also went from 2 injections a day to 4. He is very stubborn and faithful to his lifelong doctor, but to me, this is far from normal, and most certainly terrible for his body and brain in the long term. Whatever advantages might have existed to make the decision to switch insulin are obviously outweighed by the shocks at this point?? It’s been 10 years of this.. What I’d like to know is if anyone knows what the long term effects are of such frequent severe insulin shocks are, if anyone else suffers from this, and if there’s any solution other than going back to animal based insulin (which im not sure even exists anymore?). They’ve been constantly adjusting dosage, meals, injection times, injection frequency and all sorts of things over the years, but nothing works. It seems pretty simple to me, the problems started when he switched from animal to human insulin….. Please share your thoughts, my father is 60 years old and these severe attacks are taking their toll on his body, sometimes to the point where he’s sore for days after one, I imagine it must also have some effect on his neurology.. If anything, I fear he’s going to wake up one night while going to the bathroom and have a shock and crack his head open on the way down.. there’s no worse sound to me than that blood curtling yell that starts off a seizure..

Response:

Hi Steve, My thought is, instantly and on reflection, your dad should be back on Lente asap. The following link might help http://www.diabetes.org.uk/new/july00/animal.htm and also http://www.doh.gov.uk/nsf/diabetes/ch1/standardstable.htm In that second link, I advise reading v. carefully Standard 3 & Standard 4. The emphasis is on partnership, and your dad *controls* but his doc *supports*. HTH As always, wishing you well. Al.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My father has been a type 1 diabetic for the past 40 years, up until about ~10 years ago he was using animal insulin, Toronto/Lente. He would fall into hypoglycemic seizure no more than once a year, sometimes he’d go 2-3 years without one.  He was switched by his doctor to human based insulin in the early/mid nineties, is now on Humulin U and Humalog H and ever since he has been having very frequent seizures, in the order of 15+ a year. He also went from 2 injections a day to 4. He is very stubborn and faithful to his lifelong doctor, but to me, this is far from normal, and most certainly terrible for his body and brain in the long term. Whatever advantages might have existed to make the decision to switch insulin are obviously outweighed by the shocks at this point?? It’s been 10 years of this.. What I’d like to know is if anyone knows what the long term effects are of such frequent severe insulin shocks are, if anyone else suffers from this, and if there’s any solution other than going back to animal based insulin (which im not sure even exists anymore?). They’ve been constantly adjusting dosage, meals, injection times, injection frequency and all sorts of things over the years, but nothing works. It seems pretty simple to me, the problems started when he switched from animal to human insulin….. Please share your thoughts, my father is 60 years old and these severe attacks are taking their toll on his body, sometimes to the point where he’s sore for days after one, I imagine it must also have some effect on his neurology.. If anything, I fear he’s going to wake up one night while going to the bathroom and have a shock and crack his head open on the way down.. there’s no worse sound to me than that blood curtling yell that starts off a seizure..

Response:

My thought is, instantly and on reflection, your dad should be back on Lente asap. The following link might help http://www.diabetes.org.uk/new/july00/animal.htm and also http://www.doh.gov.uk/nsf/diabetes/ch1/standardstable.htm In that second link, I advise reading v. carefully Standard 3 & Standard 4. The emphasis is on partnership, and your dad *controls* but his doc *supports*. HTH As always, wishing you well.

i can’t seem to get the first link to work..?

Response:

Hi Steve, My thought is, instantly and on reflection, your dad should be back on Lente asap.

Agreed.   Seizures are nothing to fool around with.  It may not help to go back on Lente, but it sure wouldn’t hurt to try it.  And the stakes are high! BL

Response:

@ntlworld.com says… Hi Steve, My thought is, instantly and on reflection, your dad should be back on Lente asap. The following link might help http://www.diabetes.org.uk/new/july00/animal.htm and also http://www.doh.gov.uk/nsf/diabetes/ch1/standardstable.htm In that second link, I advise reading v. carefully Standard 3 & Standard 4. The emphasis is on partnership, and your dad *controls* but his doc *supports*. HTH

Or even www.iddt.org Ratty — All killer no filler ratty at flyingrat.net Site being rebuilt: www.flyingrat.net

Response:

Agreed.   Seizures are nothing to fool around with.  It may not help to go back on Lente, but it sure wouldn’t hurt to try it.  And the stakes are high!

what are the stakes

Response:

Agreed.   Seizures are nothing to fool around with.  It may not help to go back on Lente, but it sure wouldn’t hurt to try it.  And the stakes are high! what are the stakes

Life and Death. Seizures are dangerous, partly because you’re too out of it to treat yourself. I also met a comatose woman who came into the hospital with no measurable blood glucose, who was pregnant at the time. (I assume she made a serious, serious mistake treating gestational diabetes.) While dropping that low is pretty rare due to the glucagon response automatically turning glycogen into glucose to counter hypoglycemia, and the raw genius it takes to get that much insulin into your system without your body being able to trickle *some* glucose into the blood stream to keep you alive, it’s Not Good(tm). Also, if you’re bouncing your blood sugars, the DCCT showed that awareness of hypo and hyperglycemia is much better with tight control. And there’s a real chance when seizing that you’ll break something important, such as that lamp near your bed, and get cut and *BLEED*, or lose track of your hypoglycemic state when driving or walking down stairs. Not A Good Idea(tm).

Response:

Steve, I am one of those very prone to hypos.  My counter regulatory system is out and I go  through normal to unconscious state very easily. Now I have a new problem with "delayed food digestion". I am currently delaying insulin until my blood sugars rise a little and slowly add food. This means I have higher peaks than I want. My wife knows exactly when I go hypo at night.  I must scream or something. If I am slightly aware I yell for her. I have a number of broken things around. My feeling when I am not completely out is like being trapped and cannot do a thing about it. I will not discuss insulin with you because that should be done by a proper doc. You might discuss the use of Glucagon with the doc as a recovery aid.  It costs a lot and someone needs to learn when and how to use it. Carrying slightly higher blood sugars at night may be a preferred thing. One of our 911 medics is a cute gal.  But a night session finds me slightly exposed and embarrassing. My problem did not originate with insulin.  My ability to release glucose at the correct time was damaged. See a GOOD Doc  If you want a specific answer I will accept e-mail.  I can only tell you about ME. I have survived a lot of hypos and am still here. Don’t panic but learn.  Go to  www.google.com   then groups then to misc.health.diabetes and do a search on hypos.  There have been a lot of postings over the years. My wife has said I get pretty violent at times.  She deals with it and does a good job.  Just a part of our problem.

Response:

what are the stakes Life and Death. Seizures are dangerous, partly because you’re too out of it to treat yourself. I also met a comatose woman who came into the hospital with no measurable blood glucose, who was pregnant at the time. (I assume she made a serious, serious mistake treating gestational diabetes.)

Well my father has never spent the night alone in his entire life. My mother god bless her is right by his side whenever he goes into shock, she’s got it down to a science, he’s back to normal within an hour, he usually has no idea what happened the next morning unless he bit his tongue or lip while seizing.. alive, it’s Not Good(tm). Also, if you’re bouncing your blood sugars, the DCCT showed that awareness of hypo and hyperglycemia is much better with tight control. And there’s a real chance when seizing that you’ll break something important, such as that lamp near your bed, and get cut and *BLEED*, or lose track of your hypoglycemic state when driving or walking down stairs. Not A Good Idea(tm).

But other than accidents, is there any permanent long term damage that can come of frequent and/or extreme hypo’s? ie neurological? eyes? heart? etc..

Response:

My wife knows exactly when I go hypo at night.  I must scream or something. If I am slightly aware I yell for her.

My father gives out the same 2-3 second yell every single time, It’s like nothing you’ve ever heard before.. very frightening See a GOOD Doc  If you want a specific answer I will accept e-mail.  I can only tell you about ME.

Is there a good ressource for finding a doctor in Canada? My father has had the same doctor for a very long time, in a small northern community, no offense to the doctor, but I would really like him to see someone more renouned in the field, preferably someone who specialises in diabetes, just for a second opinion or possibly different perspective. My wife has said I get pretty violent at times.  She deals with it and does a good job.  Just a part of our problem.

Yes, my father is incredibly lucky to have my mother

Response:

alive, it’s Not Good(tm). Also, if you’re bouncing your blood sugars, the DCCT showed that awareness of hypo and hyperglycemia is much better with tight control. And there’s a real chance when seizing that you’ll break something important, such as that lamp near your bed, and get cut and *BLEED*, or lose track of your hypoglycemic state when driving or walking down stairs. Not A Good Idea(tm). But other than accidents, is there any permanent long term damage that can come of frequent and/or extreme hypo’s? ie neurological? eyes? heart? etc..

Like I mentioned, that comatose woman. She’d suffered severe neurological damage, and her coma was *permanent*, she was a pregnant vegetable. I don’t know if her fetus came out OK: I hoped that her body had protected the fetus, but wasn’t in a position to ask. It was a *very* unusual case: most of us Type 1’s have survived a few unconscious incidents, even seizures. I haven’t had them since changing work schedules last and working out new evening insulin doses and sleep times.

Response:

what are the stakes Life and Death. Seizures are dangerous, partly because you’re too out of it to treat yourself. I also met a comatose woman who came into the hospital with no measurable blood glucose, who was pregnant at the time. (I assume she made a serious, serious mistake treating gestational diabetes.) Well my father has never spent the night alone in his entire life.

Well he’s very lucky, but that may not last forever. My mother god bless her is right by his side whenever he goes into shock, she’s got it down to a science, he’s back to normal within an hour, he usually has no idea what happened the next morning unless he bit his tongue or lip while seizing..

What would be the case if HE had to be the one doing the "looking after"? Also I don’t think your mums got it down to a science if he’s reaching the point where he’s seizing. If your dad can bite his tongue or lip, he’s obviously WELL "out of it" and that could be positively dangerous for you mother too. This is where the very slow and smooth action of Beef Lente works it’s magic. alive, it’s Not Good(tm). Also, if you’re bouncing your blood sugars, the DCCT showed that awareness of hypo and hyperglycemia is much better with tight control. And there’s a real chance when seizing that you’ll break something important, such as that lamp near your bed, and get cut and *BLEED*, or lose track of your hypoglycemic state when driving or walking down stairs. Not A Good Idea(tm). But other than accidents, is there any permanent long term damage that can come of frequent and/or extreme hypo’s? ie neurological? eyes? heart? etc..

It’s reputed to cause brain damage. Beav

Response:

In Ontario all you have to do is ask your GP for a referral to see an Endocrinologist.  That is what you should do before things get any worse. Heather

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife knows exactly when I go hypo at night.  I must scream or something. If I am slightly aware I yell for her. My father gives out the same 2-3 second yell every single time, It’s like nothing you’ve ever heard before.. very frightening See a GOOD Doc  If you want a specific answer I will accept e-mail.  I can only tell you about ME. Is there a good ressource for finding a doctor in Canada? My father has had the same doctor for a very long time, in a small northern community, no offense to the doctor, but I would really like him to see someone more renouned in the field, preferably someone who specialises in diabetes, just for a second opinion or possibly different perspective. My wife has said I get pretty violent at times.  She deals with it and does a good job.  Just a part of our problem. Yes, my father is incredibly lucky to have my mother

Response: