Diabetes Talking

Question:

Also, less technically, water fills u up and u don’t feel as full.

Response:

: K,  Thank you for the compliment.  For the past 16 years I take : courses that I feel like taking, for no other reason than they look : like fun. : Every gal has to have a hobby. You are taking (or have taken) biochem, as a hobby?! I would suggest looking into transferring your credits to a master’s program, you are probably closer than you think. K in Cali Stacking Atkid who will be in school until she dies, just because education is _that_ important.

Response:

    It’s worth yelling from the rooftops every now and again that we ignorant folks can be sucessful as well.     We just can’t explain how.

Tommy,  Yes you can…you found a plan that works for you and you followed it. <G btw, have you had your bodyfat % checked?  Could be that you’re much closer to goal than you think. Congrats on your success!!! Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Response:

BTW Lynne, what are you in school for right now?  I am assuming some kind of master’s degree program given that you are already a nurse.  Am I way off base here?

K,  Thank you for the compliment.  For the past 16 years I take courses that I feel like taking, for no other reason than they look like fun. Every gal has to have a hobby. Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Response:

: Thanks Lynn!  I knew you’d have the right answer and a way to put it : that we simple minded folks could understand! : : The keep button gets hit on an awful lot of your messages, they make: great reference tools! : Now you know why Lynne is MY hero!! BTW Lynne, what are you in school for right now?  I am assuming some kind of master’s degree program given that you are already a nurse.  Am I way off base here? K in Cali

Response:

btw, knowing all this stuff is great but it’s not necessary for success. Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

     Amen and amen.  While I’ve been around here quite awhile now, I’m almost always silent.  Why?  Because since I’ve trimmed down pretty well, the only WHOOSH!I hear lately is most posts here going over my head.      It’s worth yelling from the rooftops every now and again that we ignorant folks can be sucessful as well.      We just can’t explain how. – Tommy  315/205/190

Response:

Thanks Lynn!  I knew you’d have the right answer and a way to put it that we simple minded folks could understand!

Dave,  no way can simple minded folk understand this!  I’d say that you must have intelligence somewhere in that gray matter to understand these concepts…they aren’t simple! I find this whole subject fascinating (which is why it’s irksome to me that my son flunked biology…couldn’t he flunk English or Social Studies instead???? <G) btw, knowing all this stuff is great but it’s not necessary for success.  Following the guidelines of whatever diet one decides to use is more important. You knew that, of course, but I wouldn’t want anyone to be scared off of the whole concept of changing their diets because we like to talk ’shop’.   Good honk on your continuing loss! Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Response:

Thanks Lynn!  I knew you’d have the right answer and a way to put it that we simple minded folks could understand! The keep button gets hit on an awful lot of your messages, they make great reference tools! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would you agree that drinking enough water is especially critical to the person on a ketogenic diet?  My thinking being that if you don’t, too many ketones won’t be passed.  (How does ketoacidosis work into this discussion, if at all?) Dave,  ketoacidosis doesn’t work into this conversation at all except to point out that non-type I diabetics have a feedback loop that type I’s don’t have. A type I diabetic will go into ketoacidosis because there is no insulin surge when keto-concentrations get WAY high.  Insulin not only transports glucose across cell walls, it also prevents fatty acid release from fat storage cells.  In a non-type I, a high concentration of ketones causes insulin release from the pancreas. As a protection from ketoacidosis, fatty acid release stops…nice feedback loop…makes the whole myth that ketosis is dangerous because of acid-base imbalance a fallacy. This also emphasizes the importance of preventing even mild dehydration in a low-carber.  Dehydration means a higher concentration of ketones…setting off that feedback loop…which is counter-productive to fat loss. hth, Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Dave 225/212/170 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

Response:

How (in reference to Dave’s explanation – I can’t seem to quote multiple sources in one response) – how do the ketones GET in the bloodstream, Dave?

katie,  fatty acids are either broken down from the foods we eat and then transported across the intestinal mucosa, stuffed in a special bag and whisked to a needy cell-OR_(if hormonal factors are right) released from fat storage cells by being separated from the glycerol backbone and  crossing  the cell membrane into the bloodstream, then stuffed in a bag and whisked to a needy cell.  Once in the cell, if all nutrients are properly in place, the fat (which was released from the special bag before crossing the cell membrane) is pushed into the mitochondria with the help of l-carnitine.  From there…it goes through an ADP cycle, ends are snipped and lots of stuff happens…resulting in energy+ketones.  The ketones are then transported out of the mitochondria and out of the cell, through the cell membrane, where it floats along the bloodstream. Everyone has one or two or more ketones floating around in the circulation at some point or another during the day.  Especially in the morning before breakfast…when the ketone concentration in the blood reaches a certain level (ie: is high enough) the kidney…that spongey thing that filters the blood…allows the ketones to pass through its tissue and into the bladder.   Since ketones can also be used for an energy source, notably the muscles during the first three weeks of a ketogenic diet and the brain (as well as a few other cells)  during all other phases, if the ketones happen to pass by a needy cell along the way, it just might be pulled in for energy production. Being well-hydrated forces a larger volume of stuff to get pushed through the kidney faster…more ketones lost, less available for energy production, the more fatty acids must be released.  The flip side: being dehydrated means less urine production and more water retention…less of everything is filtered through the kidney. That’s the short answer. <G  If I ever do finish Clinical Biochemistry Made Ridiculously Simple, I can give you a longer answer. hth, Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Response:

Would you agree that drinking enough water is especially critical to the person on a ketogenic diet?  My thinking being that if you don’t, too many ketones won’t be passed.  (How does ketoacidosis work into this discussion, if at all?)

Dave,  ketoacidosis doesn’t work into this conversation at all except to point out that non-type I diabetics have a feedback loop that type I’s don’t have. A type I diabetic will go into ketoacidosis because there is no insulin surge when keto-concentrations get WAY high.  Insulin not only transports glucose across cell walls, it also prevents fatty acid release from fat storage cells.  In a non-type I, a high concentration of ketones causes insulin release from the pancreas. As a protection from ketoacidosis, fatty acid release stops…nice feedback loop…makes the whole myth that ketosis is dangerous because of acid-base imbalance a fallacy. This also emphasizes the importance of preventing even mild dehydration in a low-carber.  Dehydration means a higher concentration of ketones…setting off that feedback loop…which is counter-productive to fat loss. hth, Lynne "I’ll have 4 fried chickens and a diet coke"

Response:

Hi Dave, I just tacked my comment onto yours, so that folks would know that ketones are produced by all humans, not just lowcarbers.  To tell you the truth I think anyone that challenges the notion of drinking adequate water is an idiot.   DRINK WATER!! K in Cali I can only please one person per day. Today is not looking good for you. Tomorrow isn’t either. The questioner seems insistent on challenging that drinking a lot of water is a good, or even necessary, thing. : : Would you agree that drinking enough water is especially critical to : the person on a ketogenic diet?  My thinking being that if you don’t, : too many ketones won’t be passed.  (How does ketoacidosis work into : this discussion, if at all?) : : : Dave : 225/211/170 : Low Carbing since 6/2/98 : :

Response:

Ketones are produced by all folks, lowcarbers and highcarbers alike.  It is just that lowcarbers have enough in their urine to be measureable.

Yes, that is true…I didn’t mention it for simplicity’s sake.  The questioner seems insistent on challenging that drinking a lot of water is a good, or even necessary, thing. Would you agree that drinking enough water is especially critical to the person on a ketogenic diet?  My thinking being that if you don’t, too many ketones won’t be passed.  (How does ketoacidosis work into this discussion, if at all?) Dave 225/211/170 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

Response:

Ketones are produced by all folks, lowcarbers and highcarbers alike.  It is just that lowcarbers have enough in their urine to be measureable. K in Cali — I can only please one person per day. Today is not looking good for you. Tomorrow isn’t either. : : How (in reference to Dave’s explanation – I can’t seem to quote multiple : sources in one response) – how do the ketones GET in the bloodstream, Dave? : : Ketones are a natural by-product of the body using FAT for energy : rather than CARBOHYDRATES. : : If you restrict carbs significantly, and caloric intake somewhat, the : body burns stored fat to supply its energy needs.  The stored : fat/ketones are released into the bloodstream as part of the normal : energy cycle of the body for those on ketogenic ways of eating. : : Eades (Power Protein) and Sears (The Zone) both discuss this somewhat : in their books. : : How do you think the energy in all your cells gets around?  That’s : what the bloodstream is for:  to supply oxygen and nutrients to all : the cells of your body. : : : Dave : 225/211/170 : Low Carbing since 6/2/98 : :

Response:

How (in reference to Dave’s explanation – I can’t seem to quote multiple sources in one response) – how do the ketones GET in the bloodstream, Dave?

Ketones are a natural by-product of the body using FAT for energy rather than CARBOHYDRATES. If you restrict carbs significantly, and caloric intake somewhat, the body burns stored fat to supply its energy needs.  The stored fat/ketones are released into the bloodstream as part of the normal energy cycle of the body for those on ketogenic ways of eating. Eades (Power Protein) and Sears (The Zone) both discuss this somewhat in their books. How do you think the energy in all your cells gets around?  That’s what the bloodstream is for:  to supply oxygen and nutrients to all the cells of your body. Dave 225/211/170 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

Response:

You are right to be skeptical about the magical effects of water. I drink a lot of water and the only benefits I see are: 1.) Water fills me up and makes me less likely to eat as much. 2.) It makes me pee, making it a natural diuretic. I suppose there is some truth to the fact that it flushes out the kidneys.

Response:

Let me play devil’s advocate here. 1.  Exactly what are these toxins, and  2. how exactly would water flush out fat?  Would fat be leaving the fat cells and somehow entering the digestive system and become water solube and get peed out? I hear these two claims all the time, but nobody ever answers these questions.

As you burn fat, little leftover things called Ketone Bodies are produced.  These Ketones float around in the blood stream and are used for energy.  If they aren’t burned, the kidneys, which cleanse the blood of everything that the body doesn’t need right now, grab the ketones out of the blood, and flush them down to the bladder, where they are passed in the urine (hence the use of ketostix urine testers to measure them). The kidneys need water intake to be able to function properly and flush the blood of everything.  Ever hear of dialysis?  That’s for those who have poorly functioning kidneys and can’t flush the toxins that everyone (dieting or not) can’t pass through normal diuresis. Dave 225/211/170 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

Response:

Water naturally flushes the toxins out of your system.  and verry important with weight loss its helps flush the fat out as you burn it off.

Response:

Nothing of importance.                            o               |               |                o               |              o               |           o   /|       _               |          ___ / |__    /_               |         / o        _/ _               _/          )      _   _                         ____  ___/  _                               |     _                               |

Response:

Water also works as an appetite suppresent for some people (for me anyway).  I used to drink sodas all day, so it’s nice to be drinking something, and I feel a lot better when I get the right amount of water in (2-3 liters). I’ve always heard (someone correct me if this is amis) that drinking enough  water keeps your body from retaining so much water (since it knows, I guess, that there’ll be more where that came from). james

Response:

Hiya all, I dont want to seem stupid and I know you are told to drink plenty of water…but why exactly??????  Is it supposed to flush out your system?? or fill you up??  Reading these posts people in US seem to really push this drinking loads of water thing.  Please explain someone?? Thanks ) I’m in UK by the way )

It flushes out your system.  Actually, you should be drinking most of the water even if you’re healthy and at your correct weight.  The healthy adult should be taking in 64 ounces of water per day. Water assists in mobilizing the fat to be excreted, it helps to keep you regular,… there are so many good things that water can do! —           Forget about world peace…Visualize using your turn signal.         ====== http://www.poboxes.com/rahurd     Home email: rahurd at poboxes dot com             Richard Hurd  Microelectronics Group, Allentown PA

Response:

Hiya all, I dont want to seem stupid and I know you are told to drink plenty of water…but why exactly??????  Is it supposed to flush out your system?? or fill you up??  Reading these posts people in US seem to really push this drinking loads of water thing.  Please explain someone?? Thanks ) I’m in UK by the way )                                                  Julie.

Response: