Non-invasive Blood Glucose Monitor

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Question:

Yes they are working on stuff but it is a long way from passing FDA. Some of the meters out there barely pass let alone a noninvasive meter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just saw a non-invasive blood glucose monitor that a company has applied for patents on. It is an entirely new approach that looks at the retina. It is at http://www.vmpc.com and looks really promising. You might want to take a look at it. There are several companies working on non-invasive blood glucose monitors and the last information I saw indicated that there are actually prototypes in clinical trial for one, a product called a GlucoWatch by Cygnus Solutions. This is a watch-like device that has a pad on the underside and measures your BG based on temperature changes in the skin. One drawback is the price ($400 for the watch and $3 per pad, which is changed daily). Sounds promising, though, especially for those of us who are no longer "hypo-aware." Check the following: http://diabetesnet.com/sit.html for a listing of companies working on similar products.

Response:

My micro touch one and my doctor concurring is good enough for me 94 MG/DL The Doctor said with a grin not bad, for he was on the plan ALSO. Last count at Easton Hospital there were 346 Doctors,nurses Techicians on what my Home Page says, So Go down and read it. and join the Club its called "A Better Life for a Diabetic", Nothing to sell Diabetics please visit my homepage Buy the products Where ever You choose! Remember do not leave any spaces in URL Http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8481/ As Always, Big John

Response:

Would the non-invasive meters be covered by insurance? My insurance finally covered pumps when the DCCT came out. So coincidentally I have had my pump for 5 years. Mine, and most, insurance will not cover something new until it’s been proven effective, and safe. They said they MAY cover H after it’s been out a year.

I think Humalog has been out for more than a year now, so you may want to check with your insurer. In any event, I was pleased to learn that my PPO covers Humalog at the same rate as other Lilly insulins. Currently I get 2 vials for a copayment of $10. dkc David Cohler, South Pasadena, CA Media Access Consultancy http://members.tripod.com/~dcohler/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is also a watch that you wear that detects minute amounts of sugar in the sweat glands. It gives you up-to-the-minute BG levels with alarms. Down side… Not yet available in the development stages… Probably in the next 2 or so years though… Yup, It will be in the stores by Christmas. They told me that in 1994 They told me that in 1995 They told me that in 1996 They told me that in 1997 It is now 1998 and they are still telling me that I suspect it will, in fact, be in the stores by Christmas I just haven’t a clue as to WHICH Christmas "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" Attention Spammers: Fee for returning your SPAM to your postmaster $250.00 Net-Tamer V 1.10 - Registered John, The problem is that some people,(in hope) will be taken in by this nonsense about a non invasive meter just around the corner. I may be wrong but perhaps we agree, it is not around the corner??

I have actually seem about a dozen different non-invasive meters. They all seem to flunk out in clinical trials. I regularly participate in CRT’s for meters, and I think most of all types flunk out, because I often never see them again. I may note that most recently I had a particularly hard time with the ones that want a drop of blood sorta scraped off with the side of the strip instead of droppe on.

Response:

I was connected to one of those EKG machines on the 20th of last month after a mystery chest pain almost made me pass out and constricted my breathing (cold sweat, lost vision). I tested my sugar as soon as I could see and it was 106. Anyway, the EKG machine was made by Hewlett Packard. You can walk about with it and it keeps monitoring you (for example, I could go to the bathroom). They never did figure out what the problem was, even though I continued to have chest pains some time after. There is a medical insurance company here in North Carolina called Kaiser Permanente that provides blood test strips free. When I was with them, they gave me 6 boxes a month (50 per box). I am with a different company now, but they still only charge me $20 for a 3 month supply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – are non-invasive/lasertype blood glucose monitors EVER going to be available? i think not. that would put the test strip industry out of business. Though I’m sure that the test strip folks like LIfescan are going to do their darndest to keep non-invasive meters off the market (Cause you got to know how long their market will last when such a meter comes out) I’ve not doubt that sooner or, more than likely, later, a non invasive meter or 2 will hit the stores. So, what do I doubt….. My ability to live that long of course Why do I say this… Well advances in medical monitoring are a happening thing Some of the stuff we can do today, Well not all that long ago (1960’s) was more in the province of Star Trek’s Dr. McCoy and a few years prior to that was totally unthinkable. Example (This is also an example of the value of NASA since they invented it) One of my daughter’s best friends is a lovely young girl who is an excellent flute player, In fact she and my daughter are co-principal flutists for the Livonia Youth Philharmonic of Michigan. She has a small heart problem however (She’s had two rounds of open heart surgery and wears a pacemaker) Well in her last round of surgery, while they installed the current pacemaker, they had to do some programming and the like… They needed 24 hour monitoring of her heart (EKG). Not all that long ago this would have entitled having an umbical cord of wires connecting you to the actual monitor which would then be echoed to the nurses station some distance away, and before that, it would have meant a nurse at your bedside to constantly watch the monitor. Today, She wore a small pack, A bit bigger than the average pack of cancer sticks, It was a telemetry unit that sent her EKG to a box on the wall This worked like the umbical cable box of not long ago. Of course this is an advance in Communications, Not medical monitoring However the EKG itself is an advance. And more are coming. I know people who remember testing urine glucose with Benedicts Then we got test strips and finally Blood meters. All are advances. Though "Diabusiness" wishes to protect it’s monolopy on testing supplies Some of the doctors working on non-invasive methods ARE DIABETICS and trust me when they find a way to kill the finger stickers. They are going to be very vocal about it. and if Lifescan, Medisense, Bayer, Ect. try to hush it up and bury the product… Well I’d now wish to be in the board room when the Pitchfork and Baseball bat committee gives it’s one and only report. "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" Attention Spammers: Fee for returning your SPAM to your postmaster $250.00 Always keep a record of data – it indicates you’ve been working. Net-Tamer V 1.10 - Registered

Response:

I also contacted Peter Pi on their non-invasive device and he told me, that the price will be 3 000 $, in Korea, In August 1998. It will be demonstrated on the 11 th Asia Oceania Congress of Endocrinology will be in Seoul, Korea tel 8223615425 , fax 8223933561 to proffessor Hyun Chul Lee. May be anybody will be in Korea or how to receive mateals of the Congress?

Response:

I just saw a non-invasive blood glucose monitor that a company has applied for patents on. It is an entirely new approach that looks at the retina. It is at http://www.vmpc.com and looks really promising. You might want to take a look at it.

I got this from Peter Pi of Samsung Chemicals regarding their upcoming non-invasive bg meter: As stated before, you will be able purchase TouchTrak PRO 200 no earlier than August and in Korea. Sorry for the inconvenience. – At this time, the expected price per unit is around US$ 30,000. The price is not yet fixed. – There is no need for any other supplies. Thirty grand! Why that’s 30 big kahunas! Yikes! That sure is hard to swallow. Sure hope it’s a typo. To email me remove the NOSPAM from my email address

Response:

There is also a watch that you wear that detects minute amounts of sugar in the sweat glands. It gives you up-to-the-minute BG levels with alarms. Down side… Not yet available in the development stages… Probably in the next 2 or so years though… Yup, It will be in the stores by Christmas. They told me that in 1994 They told me that in 1995 They told me that in 1996 They told me that in 1997 It is now 1998 and they are still telling me that I suspect it will, in fact, be in the stores by Christmas I just haven’t a clue as to WHICH Christmas "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" Attention Spammers: Fee for returning your SPAM to your postmaster $250.00 Net-Tamer V 1.10 - Registered

Response:

are non-invasive/lasertype blood glucose monitors EVER going to be available? i think not. that would put the test strip industry out of business. Though I’m sure that the test strip folks like LIfescan are going to do their darndest to keep non-invasive meters off the market (Cause you got to know how long their market will last when such a meter comes out) I’ve not doubt that sooner or, more than likely, later, a non invasive meter or 2 will hit the stores. So, what do I doubt….. My ability to live that long of course Why do I say this… Well advances in medical monitoring are a happening thing Some of the stuff we can do today, Well not all that long ago (1960’s) was more in the province of Star Trek’s Dr. McCoy and a few years prior to that was totally unthinkable. Example (This is also an example of the value of NASA since they invented it) One of my daughter’s best friends is a lovely young girl who is an excellent flute player, In fact she and my daughter are co-principal flutists for the Livonia Youth Philharmonic of Michigan. She has a small heart problem however (She’s had two rounds of open heart surgery and wears a pacemaker) Well in her last round of surgery, while they installed the current pacemaker, they had to do some programming and the like… They needed 24 hour monitoring of her heart (EKG). Not all that long ago this would have entitled having an umbical cord of wires connecting you to the actual monitor which would then be echoed to the nurses station some distance away, and before that, it would have meant a nurse at your bedside to constantly watch the monitor. Today, She wore a small pack, A bit bigger than the average pack of cancer sticks, It was a telemetry unit that sent her EKG to a box on the wall This worked like the umbical cable box of not long ago. Of course this is an advance in Communications, Not medical monitoring However the EKG itself is an advance. And more are coming. I know people who remember testing urine glucose with Benedicts Then we got test strips and finally Blood meters. All are advances. Though "Diabusiness" wishes to protect it’s monolopy on testing supplies Some of the doctors working on non-invasive methods ARE DIABETICS and trust me when they find a way to kill the finger stickers. They are going to be very vocal about it. and if Lifescan, Medisense, Bayer, Ect. try to hush it up and bury the product… Well I’d now wish to be in the board room when the Pitchfork and Baseball bat committee gives it’s one and only report. "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" Attention Spammers: Fee for returning your SPAM to your postmaster $250.00 Always keep a record of data – it indicates you’ve been working. Net-Tamer V 1.10 - Registered

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – do you think that these meters will be affordable to everyone, or just the super rich? i heard $4000 awhile ago, for a meter that was supposed to be in the middle of FDA testing…. thats quite a bit. $4000/1.375 = 2909 days /365 = 7.97 years. If the warranty on the product is 15 years I’ll buy it, borrow the money somewhere and pay this off with the savings in the strips. Plus, if you can do extra tests with no additional cost or pain, you might find yourself testing more fequently. No only would this reduce the time to break even, but you’d probably see a long term reduction in cost related to complications. I test 50-55 times per week. $4000.00 is a little over 2.5 years of strips at that rate.

Would the meters be covered by insurance? My insurance finally covered pumps when the DCCT came out. So coincidentally I have had my pump for 5 years. Mine, and most, insurance will not cover something new until it’s been proven effective, and safe. They said they MAY cover H after it’s been out a year. — Jack "The first function of a bureaucracy is to keep intact the bureaucracy." —

Response:

This is crazy John. The company that comes up with a workable non-invasive monitor will make a fortune. — do you think that these meters will be affordable to everyone, or just the super rich? i heard $4000 awhile ago, for a meter that was supposed to be in the middle of FDA testing…. thats quite a bit.

First, the company was engaging in fraud (if you mean the Diasensor or Futrex device.) Not a good standard. Second: yes, this is a reasonable for a prototype medical device. Look at the original prices on insulin pumps, for Pete’s sake. The company has to recover an *enormous* investment in testing, FDA approval, paperwork, and designs that failed miserably. And the price vs. 1 year of strips (at 5 strips a day, $1/strip, $1500 right there) is not unreasonable. The first purchasers will be hospital wards: the savings for them will be tremendous, and not handling blood will make their nurses very happy. — Nico Garcia <PGP is obviously a good idea: look at who objects to it.

Response:

There are two different but related issues. Non-invasive readings and continuous or near continuous readings. Current technology is neither. Work by one of the insulin pump companies targets an invasive but continuous readout market. The retinal reading device would be non-invasive but not really continuous. If it doesn’t require custom calibration, it might be very useful in a institutional setting. An ideal system would be non-invasive, continuous readout, without consumables (although I would not be supprised if it ate small batteries) and not require too much customization. The sensor part would fit into a chunky watch. If you can get the sensor component into a watch, you can get a chip with storage and processor also into the watch. I am not sure that would be the best place. The chip could handle the information for insulin timing and dose and meal time and composition, but trying to input it with a couple of buttons on the side of the watch doesn’t seem like great fun. Art Schor

Response:

The GlucoWatch is being developed by Cygnus, Inc. (not Cygnus Solutions which I think is a software company). It works by pulling glucose out of the skin and measuring it, not by measuring temperature.

The one I read about had a special pad between the watch and the wrist that interacted with the watch and the skin. The pad was good all day and provided continuous readings – all one had to do was to look at the watch and push a button – or maybe just look at the watch, like telling time with a digital watch. The pad cost was estimated at about $4.00, though they thought it may come down with volume. The watch was $400. At $4.00 that’s about 3-4 times as much as I spend now with my Glucometer Elite. Guess I’ll stick with the jabs, but if I had type 1, I probably would go for it.

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Response:

do you think that these meters will be affordable to everyone, or just the super rich? i heard $4000 awhile ago, for a meter that was supposed to be in the middle of FDA testing…. thats quite a bit. $4000/1.375 = 2909 days /365 = 7.97 years. If the warranty on the product is 15 years I’ll buy it, borrow the money somewhere and pay this off with the savings in the strips. Plus, if you can do extra tests with no additional cost or pain, you might find yourself testing more fequently. No only would this reduce the time to break even, but you’d probably see a long term reduction in cost related to complications. I test 50-55 times per week. $4000.00 is a little over 2.5 years of strips at that rate.

Response:

i know the man who was engineering a non invasive glucometer; hopefully this is not to far off in the future; just think what that could do to DM in general; yip yip hurray!!!!

I saw the following in the news today: NON-INVASIVE BLOOD GLUCOSE METER PATENTS FILED BY VISIONARY MEDICAL PRODUCTS CORP. – Patents have been filed for the first truly non-invasive blood glucose meter that reads optical characteristics of the eye, rather than blood samples taken from the user, it was announced Monday by Visionary Medical Products Corp. [Business Wire, 375 words] Sounds interesting. MM

Response:

$4000/1.375 = 2909 days /365 = 7.97 years. If the warranty on the product is 15 years I’ll buy it, borrow the money somewhere and pay this off with the savings in the strips. Roughly no cost to me Hans

Response:

i know the man who was engineering a non invasive glucometer; hopefully this is not to far off in the future; just think what that could do to DM in general; yip yip hurray!!!!

Response:

There are several companies working on non-invasive blood glucose monitors and the last information I saw indicated that there are actually prototypes in clinical trial for one, a product called a GlucoWatch by Cygnus Solutions. This is a watch-like device that has a pad on the underside and measures your BG based on temperature changes in the skin. One drawback is the price ($400 for the watch and $3 per pad, which is changed daily). Sounds promising, though, especially for those of us who are no longer "hypo-aware." Check the following: http://diabetesnet.com/sit.html for a listing of companies working on similar products.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – are non-invasive/lasertype blood glucose monitors EVER going to be available? i think not. that would put the test strip industry out of business. sure it might help people out. it would allow me to test a trillion times a day, and perhaps better my control over blood sugars, it might even pass the FDA tests and get its patents and everything, but the matter of companies losing a shitload of money is mroe an issue than the health of people, that is, to DA MAN. test strips are the most expensive thing in my supplies at this time(what are they about 70 cents each?). ive been hearing about these meters since i was diagnosed a buncha years ago, maybe5 or 6 years? and still nothing. this society is so reluctant to allow new technology on the market, fuck em all. love john. This is crazy John. The company that comes up with a workable non-invasive monitor will make a fortune. —

Response:

are non-invasive/lasertype blood glucose monitors EVER going to be available? i think not. that would put the test strip industry out of business. sure it might help people out. it would allow me to test a trillion times a day, and perhaps better my control over blood sugars, it might even pass the FDA tests and get its patents and everything, but the matter of companies losing a shitload of money is mroe an issue than the health of people, that is, to DA MAN. test strips are the most expensive thing in my supplies at this time(what are they about 70 cents each?). ive been hearing about these meters since i was diagnosed a buncha years ago, maybe5 or 6 years? and still nothing. this society is so reluctant to allow new technology on the market, fuck em all. love john.

This is crazy John. The company that comes up with a workable non-invasive monitor will make a fortune. — Steve It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. Make no mistake about it, the man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters – and he intends to be the master. * Ayn Rand

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