Diabetes Talking » Diabetics

Scientists discover new weapon against obesity

admin — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi all, I read an article on health.dailynewscentral.com about a new medication for obese people made from a digestive hormone in the small intestine that cause one to feel full. So, the medication works by convincing your body that you feel full. It’s still in the early stages of development, but it’s something to keep your eye out for. It’s called oxyntomodulin and studies have been done giving injections of it to obese people, which have been pretty effective. Has anyone else heard about this? http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1350/31//new_medicati… -Jason

Response:

So, if you stab yourself with an injection three times a day you will be able to reduce your calorie load by 10%? Why not just eat less and exercise more? Dally 244/165/155

Response:

Why not just eat less and exercise more?

Sounds like a good idea. I don’t consider it "progress" when yet another gimmick comes out which seemingly supports unhealthy habits. — On a Halloween Batman costume: "This cape does not give the wearer the ability to fly."

Response:

It was widely reported here in the UK earlier in the week. I’m sceptical about this. I don’t know that many people will be prepared to inject themselves regularly. Also, I suspect people who overeat seriously are likely to carry on eating after their stomach tells them they’re full anyway (I speak from experience here), and I think many people won’t want to give up eating the calorie dense food and big meals that they are used to having. To me it’s like weight loss surgery or liposuction – you may lose some weight, but if you haven’t changed in your head it isn’t really worth doing. Having said that, I don’t doubt it could help some morbidly obese people. janice

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I read an article on health.dailynewscentral.com about a new medication for obese people made from a digestive hormone in the small intestine that cause one to feel full. So, the medication works by convincing your body that you feel full. It’s still in the early stages of development, but it’s something to keep your eye out for. It’s called oxyntomodulin and studies have been done giving injections of it to obese people, which have been pretty effective. Has anyone else heard about this? It was widely reported here in the UK earlier in the week. I’m sceptical about this. I don’t know that many people will be prepared to inject themselves regularly. Also, I suspect people who overeat seriously are likely to carry on eating after their stomach tells them they’re full anyway (I speak from experience here), and I think many people won’t want to give up eating the calorie dense food and big meals that they are used to having. To me it’s like weight loss surgery or liposuction – you may lose some weight, but if you haven’t changed in your head it isn’t really worth doing. Having said that, I don’t doubt it could help some morbidly obese people. janice

I agree 100%. It seems many are always looking for that ‘magic pill’ that will cure their weight problems. They seem to overlook the fact that most are temporary and don’t teach them how to maintain that weight loss. I’ve always been afraid of unknown long-term problems and other side effects from these types of medications. It seems like we hear more and more of unknown health risks from many of the modern day miracle drugs. I’m thankful my doctor believes that old fashioned diet and exercise prevents many problems such as high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc. Beverly

Response:

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1350/31//new_medicatio n_obesity.html So, if you stab yourself with an injection three times a day you will be able to reduce your calorie load by 10%? Why not just eat less and exercise more?

That’s the point: stab yourself with an injection three times daily and you will eat less. I’d be interested to know your thoughts about insulin treatment for diabetics. — Matthew Slow and steady wins the race.

Response:

Hi all, I read an article on health.dailynewscentral.com about a new medication for obese people made from a digestive hormone

You know there is a certain joy, sense of empowerment and accomplishment in mastering eating habits and exercise. learning about good nutrition and meeting a physical challenge. It all leads to improved mental well being in addition to the physical benefits in my opinion. Losing and maintaining a substantial weight loss and practicing fitness as made me very fit for my age despite some health challenges and I am a creative cook but stress convenience, simplicity and quality food. My meals are also colorful and appetizing and that increases satisfaction. Being human, sigh.. I am vulnerable to appetite fluctuations and occasional binges, but make a big effort to get back on track quickly. I find using Fitday very helpful. It’s my best "reality show." Diet aids are like training wheels. Someday they have to be removed! — Diva ****** There is no substitute for the right food

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I read an article on health.dailynewscentral.com about a new medication for obese people made from a digestive hormone in the small intestine that cause one to feel full. So, the medication works by convincing your body that you feel full. It’s still in the early stages of development, but it’s something to keep your eye out for. It’s called oxyntomodulin and studies have been done giving injections of it to obese people, which have been pretty effective. Has anyone else heard about this? http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1350/31//new_medicatio n_obesity.html So, if you stab yourself with an injection three times a day you will be able to reduce your calorie load by 10%? Why not just eat less and exercise more? That’s the point: stab yourself with an injection three times daily and you will eat less. I’d be interested to know your thoughts about insulin treatment for diabetics. — Matthew Slow and steady wins the race.

When there’s another way to treat child onset diabetes, come back and talk to us.

Response:

Nice to see you CM, how have you been?

Great! Permanently off sugar and caffeine. Eating a natural diet consistently for the last 2 months and have lost 20 pounds. No cravings for anything unhealthy whatsoever. — On a Halloween Batman costume: "This cape does not give the wearer the ability to fly."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not just eat less and exercise more? Sounds like a good idea. I don’t consider it "progress" when yet another gimmick comes out which seemingly supports unhealthy habits. Hm, if anything, that substance supposedly does make people "eat less". That, as such, is hardly unhealthy. It may have side effects that I am not aware of, but its intended effect is not unhealthy. It does not make people gorge on food and lose weight. My own expectation is that this drug will not work for people in the long run. There are many pathways regulating hunger. Disabling just one does not work very well. All kinds of short term effects have been shown for all kinds of interventions, but long term effect is what we really need. Nice to see you CM, how have you been? — 223/175.1/180

True, and eating less doesn’t necessarily mean good nutrition. How many people have posted here early in their participation asking what’s the difference between a snack of 100 calories of [name that junk food] and 100 calories of [name that healthy food]?

Response:

Carol–Diva, Couldn’t agree with you more … [Hello. I am back. (I know... It has been a long time.)] I remember when the effects of leptin had been discovered and people were running around exclaiming to me, "Here’s hope for you …!" [I was weighing more than 75 pounds at the time more than I do now; but ,deep down, with my self-image at the time--which no amount of careful makeup/hair styling could seem to counterbalance--I was always, consistently, treated as if I were weighing far more ...] I was exercising aerobically practically every day for over an hour and a half; I did not control my calorie count and I had been under a lot of stress as well. My weight may have been high, but it was STABLE. As was my sense of self. I shot back–"You talk like you have never been fat!", "You think you understand what motivates me!" "I am much too old for this!" "I earned this fat, any stretch marks, and would earn any weight loss (if ever)!" One sympathetic woman in the group got alarmed at my "outbursts" and told me about her experiences of living in a foreign country where fat women are accepted and considered attractive by men … Well, that’s a start … I understand the need for the research and the implications of the findings, too. But how condescending of anybody to think that all fat people are motivated by the search for…or, worse yet, the hope for … a magic bullet ..! Tina 220ish/140/140 Fifty and Fabulous! Maintaining since November of 2003 [I know, it hasn't been 2 years yet. This is why I came back. "It's not second nature."] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I read an article on health.dailynewscentral.com about a new medication for obese people made from a digestive hormone You know there is a certain joy, sense of empowerment and accomplishment in mastering eating habits and exercise. learning about good nutrition and meeting a physical challenge. It all leads to improved mental well being in addition to the physical benefits in my opinion. Losing and maintaining a substantial weight loss and practicing fitness as made me very fit for my age despite some health challenges and I am a creative cook but stress convenience, simplicity and quality food. My meals are also colorful and appetizing and that increases satisfaction. Being human, sigh.. I am vulnerable to appetite fluctuations and occasional binges, but make a big effort to get back on track quickly. I find using Fitday very helpful. It’s my best "reality show." Diet aids are like training wheels. Someday they have to be removed! — Diva ****** There is no substitute for the right food

Response:

Eat like a diabetic

admin — Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Here is my philosophy for losing weight: Eat like a diabetic. This entails: 1. Eat things that it takes your body awhile to digest. 2. Eat sloooowwwwwly. 3. Eat frequent small portions.

Well, I’m doing at least one of those, #3. I wasn’t aware that diabetics ate slowly. And as far as #1 goes, I assume it means eating fiber rich foods, which I am doing. I admit I don’t know much about the dietary advice diabetics are given, but I thought that one of the main things they are told is to limit they consumption of complex carbohydrates. I would not like to have to do this. I’m dieting the way I am, and losing weight, with the hope that I don’t one day *have* to eat like a diabetic. — Annie 258/221/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 37 pounds lost. 81 left to go. Started February/07/05

Response:

Here is my philosophy for losing weight: Eat like a diabetic. This entails: 1. Eat things that it takes your body awhile to digest. 2. Eat sloooowwwwwly. 3. Eat frequent small portions. Long ago I tried losing weight by eating fewer calories. I did not realize it at the time, but I was short circuiting my effort by eating quickly when I did eat. This was natural enough, because by the time I ate, I WAS STARVING. But I realize now that this would only cause me to be hungrier later. Why??? The higher up one drives one’s blood glucose levels (and therefore insulin level) the lower the blood sugar level will go as the insulin level chases it down, after it peaks. There is a lag between the levels of glucose in the interstitial fluid and in the blood stream. As a result, when the glucose level is high and the glucose level falling, perhaps 45 minutes after finishing a meal, the interstitial fluid will have a lower glucose level than the bloodstream. Before the pancreas realizes it, the isf glucose level is very low, leading the bloodstream glucose level low. Suddenly, the subject feels like he/she is starving. The glucose and fat in the blood stream has been packed away into body tissue, and little is left in the bloodstream. It has been a long time since I have dared to think about limiting calories, because those hunger experiences were so painful. Now, however, I plan to begin, and will start contributing to the eating/exercise posts, because I feel more confident that I can limit calories without having painful hunger as a result. My thought is that one should eat so slowly that the process of lypolisis????? (the process of tissue fat entering the blood stream and being burned up) never comes to a complete halt, just slowing down directly after eating (as it is well nigh impossible [unless you are on an IV drip] to consume calories at a precisely uniform rate throughout the day). That way, the nutrients in the blood stream never fall to such low concentrations that the subject feels painful hunger. Another way of thinking about it is: once that process has started, for heavens sake don’t stop it. — Glycemic

Response:

to wear socks or not

admin — Mon, 23 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

wrote in message

news:rtd3911dukh7aka3b1o3t8j5fboajte37f@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Mon, 23 May 2005 10:53:07 GMT, "abdi" wrote: > >I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a > >lot of bare wood floors, but lat night > >my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much > >sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. > >Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all that > >good, so what do you think? > These days I can’t manage to get around the house with anything on my > feet. I frequently "sprain" my toes but the alternative is constantly > having to pull my socks back into position. > I’ve been looking for the perfect socks for ages. Those that are warm > and not tight but don’t slip off! I’ve got a drawer full of socks that > I have tried. > Steve

My wife found socks for me that are for diabetics. From the ankle down they are like normal socks, from the ankle up they are a coarser loser weave, not tight and very comfortable. Only came in two colours though, black and tan, so they go with almost any color trousers. Ernie

Response:

Rob, one other problem I have found going downhill, is there any trick to it. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Rob Duncan" wrote in message

news:BuqdnZjxJbOdkQ_fRVn-1g@gbronline.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "abdi" wrote in message > news:nCike.17398$i42.4421@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have >>a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night >> my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much >> sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. >> Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all >> that good, so what do you think? >> — >> Quaecomque sunt vera —- > Abdi, this is what I did, back when I couldnt feel my feet… I used those > blue hospital socks with the little rubber strips on the bottom. Very > good traction. Maybe they have some at a local medical supply store, > maybe the hospital or your doctor could give you a couple pairs? Theyre > dark blue with light blue thin rubber strips on the bottom. Very comfy > and give good grip. > Rob

Response:

"abdi" wrote in message

news:fmpke.17458$i42.12578@twister.nyroc.rr.com… > Rob, one other problem I have found going downhill, is there any trick to > it.

Are you in a postition to step down it sideways, so your feet dont shoot out in front of you and you land on your ass? I Once saw my little brother have his feet shoot out in front of him, walking down our rather steap driveway, (grass with rock for the tires) landing on his ass rather hard. After cursing a blue streak, he once again fell down, smacking his ass, hard, again. That time I couldnt help it and laughed my butt off… and he couldnt get up the hill to chase me. LOL. The only thing I can think of is going sideways. A friend of mine (probably the best musician west of the Mississippi) has only one leg and literally is scared to death of going down stairs because if he isnt using his fake leg hes on crutches. I guess it only takes a few good falls and your scarred for life. Try going down sideways if the situation permits. Do you have a walking stick? Not a cane, but a good old fashioned walking stick. You know, wood, old, about 5ft long. I do and I dont hesitate to take it if Im going to be near touchy terrain. Im doing good, but Im no fool. I tip over easy when Im really tired. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "Rob Duncan" wrote in message > news:BuqdnZjxJbOdkQ_fRVn-1g@gbronline.com… >> "abdi" wrote in message >> news:nCike.17398$i42.4421@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have >>>a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night >>> my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much >>> sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. >>> Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all >>> that good, so what do you think? >>> — >>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >> Abdi, this is what I did, back when I couldnt feel my feet… I used >> those blue hospital socks with the little rubber strips on the bottom. >> Very good traction. Maybe they have some at a local medical supply >> store, maybe the hospital or your doctor could give you a couple pairs? >> Theyre dark blue with light blue thin rubber strips on the bottom. Very >> comfy and give good grip. >> Rob

Response:

OK, just to be sure, WallyWorld is Wal-Mart right? — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "GT Tick" wrote in message

news:15843-42925939-201@storefull-3232.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Aqua Socks…WallyWorld…$8-$9. Comfort and traction. > Try ‘em, you will learn I’m right ‘again’. Then you can stuff a sock in > it. > Tick > — > — > to wear socks or not > Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Date: Mon, May 23, 2005, 10:53am > (CDT+5) From: a…@yahoo.com (abdi) > I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We > have a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night > my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much > sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. > Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all > that good, so what do you think? > — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** > Visit Me At Tick’s Place… > http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

10-4. Now you’re even smarter than you were yesterday. Es verdad, you do learn something new everyday. — — Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Date: Tue, May 24, 2005, 12:13am (CDT+5) From: a…@yahoo.com (abdi) OK, just to be sure, WallyWorld is Wal-Mart right? *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** Visit Me At Tick’s Place… http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

abdi wrote: > I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a > lot of bare wood floors, but lat night > my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much > sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. > Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all that > good, so what do you think?

abdi, we’re having a heat wave in san diego right now, so i’m barefoot as often as possible. when the weather is cooler, i have a pair of fuzzy slippers that fit my feet well, and i wear them all over the block! they slide well on the tiles, and don’t seem to interfere with the need to pick the foot UP when outside the house. when i need to go a-travelin’, i have a pair of boots with reinforced heels, that i wear with everything. even skirts! i’ve never been chided for my bad fashion sense; folks seem to think it’s cute. of course, most folks are more disposed to think ‘cute’ when a female does something like that, than when it’s a male — if you wore boots with shorts or something. my latest local chapter M.S. mag had an article by a member who highly recommended soething called ‘Z-coil’ shoes — they help you lift the foot because there’s a spring at the heel to help absorb shock. i’ve never tried them, and have no idea how well they work or how much they cost, but the san diego M.S. Society says they can be ordered here — http://www.healthfoot.net if you want to check it out and see if you can get more info. rose

Response:

Rose, The slippers that flop either shoot off my foot, or I pay so much attention that I fall, it seems normal people have a sensation that we lack, it works for everyone except me. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "rose" wrote in message

news:1116960089.776561.226220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> abdi wrote: >> I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We > have a >> lot of bare wood floors, but lat night >> my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too > much >> sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. >> Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not > all that >> good, so what do you think? > abdi, we’re having a heat wave in san diego right now, so i’m barefoot > as often as possible. > when the weather is cooler, i have a pair of fuzzy slippers that fit my > feet well, and i wear them all over the block! they slide well on the > tiles, and don’t seem to interfere with the need to pick the foot UP > when outside the house. > when i need to go a-travelin’, i have a pair of boots with reinforced > heels, that i wear with everything. even skirts! i’ve never been chided > for my bad fashion sense; folks seem to think it’s cute. of course, > most folks are more disposed to think ‘cute’ when a female does > something like that, than when it’s a male — if you wore boots with > shorts or something. > my latest local chapter M.S. mag had an article by a member who highly > recommended soething called ‘Z-coil’ shoes — they help you lift the > foot because there’s a spring at the heel to help absorb shock. > i’ve never tried them, and have no idea how well they work or how much > they cost, but the san diego M.S. Society says they can be ordered here > — > http://www.healthfoot.net if you want to check it out and see if you > can get more info. > rose

Response:

Aqua Socks…WallyWorld…$8-$9. Comfort and traction. Try ‘em, you will learn I’m right ‘again’. Then you can stuff a sock in it. Tick — — to wear socks or not Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Date: Mon, May 23, 2005, 10:53am (CDT+5) From: a…@yahoo.com (abdi) I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all that good, so what do you think? — Quaecomque sunt vera —- *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** Visit Me At Tick’s Place… http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

Never done it, but sounds plausible, essentially it seems I do not have a way to stop, its kind of runaway train. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Rob Duncan" wrote in message

news:p6mdnZB-SdIa2g_fRVn-gg@gbronline.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "abdi" wrote in message > news:fmpke.17458$i42.12578@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >> Rob, one other problem I have found going downhill, is there any trick to >> it. > Are you in a postition to step down it sideways, so your feet dont shoot > out in front of you and you land on your ass? I Once saw my little > brother have his feet shoot out in front of him, walking down our rather > steap driveway, (grass with rock for the tires) landing on his ass rather > hard. After cursing a blue streak, he once again fell down, smacking his > ass, hard, again. That time I couldnt help it and laughed my butt off… > and he couldnt get up the hill to chase me. LOL. > The only thing I can think of is going sideways. A friend of mine > (probably the best musician west of the Mississippi) has only one leg and > literally is scared to death of going down stairs because if he isnt using > his fake leg hes on crutches. I guess it only takes a few good falls and > your scarred for life. Try going down sideways if the situation permits. > Do you have a walking stick? Not a cane, but a good old fashioned walking > stick. You know, wood, old, about 5ft long. I do and I dont hesitate to > take it if Im going to be near touchy terrain. Im doing good, but Im no > fool. I tip over easy when Im really tired. > Rob >> — >> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >> "Rob Duncan" wrote in message >> news:BuqdnZjxJbOdkQ_fRVn-1g@gbronline.com… >>> "abdi" wrote in message >>> news:nCike.17398$i42.4421@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>>I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We >>>>have a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night >>>> my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much >>>> sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. >>>> Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all >>>> that good, so what do you think? >>>> — >>>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>> Abdi, this is what I did, back when I couldnt feel my feet… I used >>> those blue hospital socks with the little rubber strips on the bottom. >>> Very good traction. Maybe they have some at a local medical supply >>> store, maybe the hospital or your doctor could give you a couple pairs? >>> Theyre dark blue with light blue thin rubber strips on the bottom. Very >>> comfy and give good grip. >>> Rob

Response:

"abdi" wrote in message

news:nCike.17398$i42.4421@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a >lot of bare wood floors, but lat night > my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much > sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. > Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all > that good, so what do you think? > — > Quaecomque sunt vera —-

Abdi, this is what I did, back when I couldnt feel my feet… I used those blue hospital socks with the little rubber strips on the bottom. Very good traction. Maybe they have some at a local medical supply store, maybe the hospital or your doctor could give you a couple pairs? Theyre dark blue with light blue thin rubber strips on the bottom. Very comfy and give good grip. Rob

Response:

I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a lot of bare wood floors, but lat night my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all that good, so what do you think? — Quaecomque sunt vera —-

Response:

On Mon, 23 May 2005 10:53:07 GMT, "abdi" wrote: >I have stopped wearing socks. They are slippery and make me fall. We have a >lot of bare wood floors, but lat night >my pinky toe got caught while I was on the rug, and not having too much >sensation or muscle I turned on that foot. >Now it hurts like hell, so I am thinking maybe no sock thing is not all that >good, so what do you think?

These days I can’t manage to get around the house with anything on my feet. I frequently "sprain" my toes but the alternative is constantly having to pull my socks back into position. I’ve been looking for the perfect socks for ages. Those that are warm and not tight but don’t slip off! I’ve got a drawer full of socks that I have tried. Steve

Response:

Slightly OT: A Diabetic medical question about combating the effects of Novolog

admin — Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

The reason I am placing this request for help on this newsgroup is because I use the newsgroup quite a bit and know there are a few other diabetics online here. I’m having some medical problems and would like to find someone who might be able to offer me some solutions. I’m diabetic and am taking 30 units of Novolog Mix 70/30 twice a day (morning and evening). But it makes me very sleepy and I am spending way too much time in bed during the day. I force myself to get up but then have no energy or natural enthusiasm. And there are times when my feet and my legs (from my knees down) hurt a lot, enough to make my daily walks very slow and difficult. I’ve just finished a several months time period where I took no medication at all and got back my old energy, and my legs and feet quit hurting. Everything was much better except for my sugar level, which shot up to the danger point and stayed there despite my strict eating habits. I kept my carb intake and calories extremely low. I am of normal weight. My doctor talked me into going back on the Novolog insulin shots last month. Within a week the sleepiness and leg/foot pain returned. Has anyone on this newsgroup had the same problem? If so, what did you do about it? I can’t switch to taking pills instead of the shots. Over the years I have taken every different pill available and each one has made me sick, some extremely so. The insulin shots are the least damaging medicine I have tried so there isn’t any alternative to them at this point. My body seems to be allergic to all diabetic medicine but I would like to find a way to fight the symptoms I’m having from the shots. Any suggestions???? You can write me via this newsgroup or at my email address: Thanks, Barbara

Response:

My doctor talked me into going back on the Novolog insulin shots last month. Within a week the sleepiness and leg/foot pain returned. Has anyone on this newsgroup had the same problem? If so, what did you do about it?

‘human’ insulins that caused his problem and switching to pork helped him, don’t remember his name, sorry. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Response:

DKA is the shits….

admin — Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – |Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! | |3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before |that… 5.1 | |9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in |the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. |Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. |Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be |fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. |Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching |cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert |needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. | |Still bleeding and still in agony. | |Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a |minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. | |10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. |BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and |I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! | |Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". | |Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) | |Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now |TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a |drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even |drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an |artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at |the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. | |Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is |"somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the |bout of DKA is the result of drying out. | |Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all |kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I |probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) | |48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) |The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact |that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements |and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke |volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my |diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no |chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace |the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink |doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, |so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came |and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) |and I was herded out the door. | |So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived |having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously |for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? | |Beav | Hi Beav Glad you’re back with us mate. Every so often one of you T1s post a story like that – and I stop moaning about the hassles of being T2. Get well quickly. Do they know what the initial trigger was? Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

AN overwhelming desire to break wind i would guess Sorry … i just couldn’t help myself …. in fact i guess that’s what Beav said first too!

Response:

Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! 3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before that… 5.1 9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. Still bleeding and still in agony. Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. 10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is "somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the bout of DKA is the result of drying out. Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) 48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) and I was herded out the door. So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? Beav

Response:

oh Beav….. what a tale to tell i’ll make double sure on the ketones now….. i’d sorta figured i was immune to that by now…… and you have shown that i’m NOT when i’m sick glad you are well and on the mend and glad to see your sense of humor is still alive and well insulin into a vein did you say??????? bwha ha ha that was a silly discussion when it happened……. still brings a grin to my face kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! 3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before that… 5.1 9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. Still bleeding and still in agony. Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. 10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is "somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the bout of DKA is the result of drying out. Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) 48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) and I was herded out the door. So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? Beav

Response:

I’m glad i’m not big on empathy :))) The shits is the one thing i fear for just that reason, it’s something i dreaded on insulatard .. Glad you’re ok matey, we don’t need to lose you just yet . Want me tosend some corks over to plug any holes? Patrick

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Laptop with a home wireless network can be very useful in this situation Phildo

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|Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! | |3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before |that… 5.1 | |9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in |the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. |Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. |Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be |fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. |Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching |cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert |needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. | |Still bleeding and still in agony. | |Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a |minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. | |10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. |BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and |I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! | |Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". | |Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) | |Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now |TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a |drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even |drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an |artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at |the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. | |Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is |"somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the |bout of DKA is the result of drying out. | |Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all |kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I |probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) | |48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) |The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact |that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements |and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke |volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my |diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no |chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace |the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink |doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, |so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came |and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) |and I was herded out the door. | |So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived |having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously |for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? | |Beav | Hi Beav Glad you’re back with us mate. Every so often one of you T1s post a story like that – and I stop moaning about the hassles of being T2. Get well quickly. Do they know what the initial trigger was? Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

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It would’ve split my concentration Phil. Crap or scarf for porn? No contest ) Beav

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! 3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before that… 5.1 9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. Still bleeding and still in agony. Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. 10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is "somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the bout of DKA is the result of drying out. Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) 48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) and I was herded out the door. So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? Beav

I am glad to know you are recovered. Sounds like me on Insulaturd – now you know why I was first to call it *Turd*. All the other GM insulins did the same to my poor – it felt like I was farting white-hot flames. As for double MM, who gives a shit – lol – anyway? Milo

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|Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! Glad you’re back with us mate. Every so often one of you T1s post a story like that – and I stop moaning about the hassles of being T2.

Yeah! What he said. Scary!! Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/79/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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Glad you’re back with us mate. Every so often one of you T1s post a story like that – and I stop moaning about the hassles of being T2. Get well quickly. Do they know what the initial trigger was? Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter. AN overwhelming desire to break wind i would guess

I desired NOT to last night, but it didn’t help. Spent most of the night farting and the rest of the night "checking" )) Sorry … i just couldn’t help myself …. in fact i guess that’s what Beav said first too!

Still saying it man:) Beav

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It felt like I was putting white hot flames out with petrol. Eruptable and flammable blood:-) As for double MM, who gives a shit – lol – anyway?

I just thought of him when they hooked up the insulin pump into my vein. I was almost laughing, but couldn’t, so I just grinned. The nurse doing the IV looked at me with a VERY wary eye:-)) Then I went to sleep quite happy. There’s something about leaving a nurse guessing that I quite like Beav

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It’s a "heads up" for any diabetic that little tale Nicky. I’ve never had ANY sort of diabetic related problem (no comlications at all) and I keep a pretty good check on my levels, but when you’re body decides to rid itself of what it doesn’t like, it also rids itself of stuff it really needs and before you know it, you’re in the crap. This may sound "elitist", but if it can happen to me (or anyone who looks after themsleves to the extent most of us on the NG’s do), it can happen to ANYONE who’s diabetic. Remember, all of us here are acutely aware of our condition, but there a millions of diabetics who aren’t interested. Beav

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yuppers……. i’m picking up ketodiastix today…… they are cheap enough that if they expire before i use them (they always do) then i can just buy some more….. first signs of 20’s with ketones in this sort of condition it’s off to the ER for me this one has my full attention Beav…… and like you, i often just say ‘oh, it’ll be ok give it a minute’ sigh kate

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Funnily enough Al, one of the docs at the A&E assumed I was T2 because of my age at dx. I told him there was never any question about my type and to NOT treat this episode as if I was T2. That was while I was waiting for the ketone results. When they came back (within minutes) he said something along the lines of "Oh… right, you ARE T1", as if he didn’t want me to be!! I wonder if he would’ve done the test like the other doctor did. Get well quickly. Do they know what the initial trigger was?

At first they considered food poisoning, then a virus/bug or something alien, but in the end they never came to a solid conclusion. A bit like my arse really, THAT never came to anything solid Personally, I don’t care what it was, now that it’s gone, so long as it doesn’t come back:-)) I binned all the food in the fridge though! Beav

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oh Beav….. what a tale to tell

Don’t I know Kate. i’ll make double sure on the ketones now….. i’d sorta figured i was immune to that by now…… and you have shown that i’m NOT when i’m sick

I spoke to the doc at length about it after I’d regained some sense of normaility (well… I did say "some":-) and she said that if I hadn’t been as bad as I was, she’d have been very surprised given the speed at which DKA can hit. glad you are well and on the mend

Aye, on the mend and bored stupid. Guts are still sore as hell (no surprises there then eh?:-) and there’s a feeling that if I go out, I’ll end up having a laugh and if I laugh I’ll cough and if I cough I’ll fart and if I fart… game over for a pair of knickers:-) so I’m stuck in the house. and glad to see your sense of humor is still alive and well insulin into a vein did you say??????? bwha ha ha that was a silly discussion when it happened……. still brings a grin to my face

Mine too. Mick would’ve died of fright if he’d seen the size of the insulin syringe. I’ve got a smaller rubbish bin behind the house:-)) Beav

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I’m real glad that Beavette knows when to ignore you! This place wouldn’t be the same without you. Maggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or more to the point, the shits can lead to DKA in almost no time at all!!!! 3 in the morning and I head for the bog with gut ache. BG an hour before that… 5.1 9u’s of my usual brew expecting a few hours in me kip. Didn’t happen. 5 in the morning still on the bog with chronic gut ache and an empty stomach. Emptied at both ends I might add. Now I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. Something’s not right, but being a bloke "Give it a minute and I’ll be fine". Check BG. 13mmol/l. Insert needle and wallop in 10u’s of Humalog. Still on bog at 8 in the morning and still doubled up with gut wrenching cramps. Can’t drink anything, and I’m thirsty. BG now 17mmol/l. Insert needle and add more Humalog. No effect. AT ALL. Still bleeding and still in agony. Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Don’t bother, I’ll be Ok in a minute" Another thing that didn’t happen. 10 in the morning and I’m knackered and hurting. And thirsty. VERY thirsty. BG is now 20mmol/l and seems to be defying all efforts to come back down and I’m still on the bog. I’m tired of sitting on a bog! Wife says "I’m calling the doc". Beav says "Fuck off, I’m Ok". Wife calls doc after ignoring me:-)) Doc calls ambulance. Bee-Baw, Bee-baw. In they come and out I go. BG is now TWENTY SEVEN and I’m not feeling particularly "Beav" like. Still not had a drink and still CAN’T drink. Dehydrated. Lips dry as a bone, fingers even drier, can’t focus, beginning to feel like shit. Doc at the hozzie digs an artery for a sample (no piss to check, that’s all been done with:-) and at the same time inserts fluid drip and IV insulin. Doc comes back 5 minutes later and announces that my ketone level is "somewhat out of kilter" (As if I give a shit at this point) and that the bout of DKA is the result of drying out. Potassium drip added. Later onto glucose drip too so I’ve got bags of all kinds hanging around and attached to me and I couldn’t give a shit. (Well I probably could, but it’d have been just the usual… blood) 48 hours later and I feel like a new man (I imagine the missus does too!!:) The doc says she’ll remove the drips and the insulin IV based on the fact that I carry a meter at all times, have ALL my usual diabetic tranklements and she’s got my records from the clinic. (I think those records spoke volumes to her) She’s aware that the problem wasn’t from lack of checking my diabetes anyway, or being less than vigilant. She said that there was no chance of NOT going into DKA given the circumstance (not drinking to replace the lost fluids in’t a good idea peeps!) Mind you, not being ABLE to drink doesn’t help. Anyway, the drips were removed just before "lunch" time today, so I had a bowl of veggie soup, a bread roll and 6u’s of Humalog. Doc came and checked my BG at 2 this afternoon (5.1), re-checked for ketones (none) and I was herded out the door. So not only did I survive the gut problem and the DKA, but I even survived having feck knows how many units of Actrapid poured into a vein continuously for 48 hours. I wonder what Micky Martin would think about that? Beav

– Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent. – RD Laing

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glad you’re back with us mate. Every so often one of you T1s post a story like that – and I stop moaning about the hassles of being T2. Get well quickly. Do they know what the initial trigger was? Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter. AN overwhelming desire to break wind i would guess I desired NOT to last night, but it didn’t help. Spent most of the night farting and the rest of the night "checking" )) Sorry … i just couldn’t help myself …. in fact i guess that’s what Beav said first too! Still saying it man:) Beav

good to have you back and i’m glad you’re ok with no lasting side effects, well apart from a need to replace a few burnt pairs of shreddies eh

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Glad to see you’re still with us. Now get loafing for a week and back to normal so you have some shit for beavette to kick out of you for scaring it out of her. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.6/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

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A DKA page ( for Docs ? ) looks like Beav a medical team than ran pretty closely through these procedures. A worrying snippet – DKA is often recurrent ( 42% of sufferers ). But DKA is rarely fatal ( 3% ) – its the associated brain-swelling that’s a killer… http://www.fleshandbones.com/readingroom/pdf/412.pdf

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and glad to see your sense of humor is still alive and well insulin into a vein did you say??????? bwha ha ha that was a silly discussion when it happened……. still brings a grin to my face Mine too. Mick would’ve died of fright if he’d seen the size of the insulin syringe. I’ve got a smaller rubbish bin behind the house:-))

eewwwwwwwwww plonk! after 17 yrs i still have a morbid fear of needles…. IF someone else is using them!!! kate

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I can live with the medico’s sticking needles into a vein for drawing blood or inserting IV’s, but I’ll tell you what Kate, I DON’T like them digging into an artery. First of all it’s harder to get TO the artery (they’re deeper underground apparently) and they’re made of hardier material than a vein so the needle has a harder time getting into ‘em. That means there’s a "bit of digging" to find the artery, then there’s a "bit of whinging" when they try breaking into it. After the 3rd attempt I said to the doc "One more chance and we’re done with it, I’ve had enough pain these last 12 hours to last me a while and I’m not having any more of this". My missus was sat alongside me almost fainting. Come to think of it, so was I (Not sat alongside me of course:-)) Beav

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I’m real glad that Beavette knows when to ignore you! This place wouldn’t be the same without you.

It’s funny you say that Maggie, coz that’s what I think too:-)) When I came out yesterday (Monday) I said to Beavette that I couldn’t understand why I told her to bugger off home and do "whatever Beavette’s do" while I was lying there. *I* wouldn’t have left her (as she didn’t leave me) even if she’d have yelled at me to, but being a bloke, I was thinking "There must be something better she can be doing, rather than sitting here while I drift in and out of reality". I wasn’t even SLIGHTLY worried about me (mind ewe, I wasn’t even slightly AWARE:-), and I couldn’t figure out why she was. She told me to feck off:-)) Beav

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can live with the medico’s sticking needles into a vein for drawing blood or inserting IV’s, but I’ll tell you what Kate, I DON’T like them digging into an artery. First of all it’s harder to get TO the artery (they’re deeper underground apparently) and they’re made of hardier material than a vein so the needle has a harder time getting into ‘em. That means there’s a "bit of digging" to find the artery, then there’s a "bit of whinging" when they try breaking into it. After the 3rd attempt I said to the doc "One more chance and we’re done with it, I’ve had enough pain these last 12 hours to last me a while and I’m not having any more of this". My missus was sat alongside me almost fainting. Come to think of it, so was I (Not sat alongside me of course:-)) Beav

bloody hell….. why did they have to find an artery? oh man…. there goes my appetite for dinner kate

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a "heads up" for any diabetic that little tale Nicky. I’ve never had ANY sort of diabetic related problem (no comlications at all) and I keep a pretty good check on my levels, but when you’re body decides to rid itself of what it doesn’t like, it also rids itself of stuff it really needs and before you know it, you’re in the crap. This may sound "elitist", but if it can happen to me (or anyone who looks after themsleves to the extent most of us on the NG’s do), it can happen to ANYONE who’s diabetic. Remember, all of us here are acutely aware of our condition, but there a millions of diabetics who aren’t interested. Beav yuppers……. i’m picking up ketodiastix today…… they are cheap enough that if they expire before i use them (they always do) then i can just buy some more…..

I’ve never bothered with Ketostix Kate, but that’s because I’ve never had an out of control day like Friday. I knew I WAS getting bad, but I had no idea HOW bad. When I tasted pear-drops in the ambulance I did though! first signs of 20’s with ketones in this sort of condition it’s off to the ER for me

I’ll make damned sure I don’t get to that point again. 4 hours on the bog MAX in future:-))) this one has my full attention Beav…… and like you, i often just say ‘oh, it’ll be ok give it a minute’

And there I was thinking it was a bloke thing:-)))) sigh

Indeed….. Beav

Response:

Not even a splash Pat, but close…. VERY close:-) Thankfully I can reach the sink while I’m sat on the throne:-) Beav

Response:

College Paper – Low Carb Products.

admin — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Skip the meal? I don’t think I have purposefully skipped a meal due to preperation. I have actually left meetings or lunches for work to go to the grocery store for foods I can eat (ie – pizza being served, pasta, etc . . .) No one ever questioned me but I am sure I got some looks. Thanks for your response.

Response:

Learn how to quote. — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree with picking my own sides. I don’t think I have ever ordered anything off of the low carb menu because I am so picky at restaurants I tell them exactly what I want changed and what I want added or on the side. Thanks for the response!

Response:

Thanks for the info!

Response:

Your response was exactly what I was hoping someone else would say! Thank you so much for your insight!

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Do you think that those who do’t read the book and fully understand the way to LC "bash" those more quickly who have had success because of understanding? I have heard too often "LC doen’t work" from people who tried it for a week by simply replacing one or two items with LC and I just want to laugh. Thanks!

Response:

My newest treat is this Low Carb Licorice I found that satiates my love of red vines, but I have a few bites of one strip and then I lock them away at my office. Munching on them is a bad thing for me, haha. I have always liked to shop three or four times a week for my fresh food, and LC’ing has meant that I have needed to buy the freshest possible in my mind. Thanks for your response!

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Ha ha. I don’t buy the ice cream either! Vanilla, though very plain, is the death of me! Thanks for your response!

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That is exactly my point. Had there been LC Brownies readily available when I first started LC’ing I don’t think I would have been successful! Thanks!

Response:

I agree with picking my own sides. I don’t think I have ever ordered anything off of the low carb menu because I am so picky at restaurants I tell them exactly what I want changed and what I want added or on the side. Thanks for the response!

Response:

You don’t need breakfast bars or snacks. If you don’t have time to prepare something, then just skip that meal. It’ll be good for you. — Most of us probably aren’t in danger of eating too little. – Becky P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I lost over 35 pounds by eating fresh low carb foods since 2002. Now that there are literally thousands of prepared products to choose from, I still find my best success at weight management comes when I limit myself to those low carb foods I prepare myself. I am writing a research paper on this – has the mass introduction of low carb products on the market negatively effected your low carb diet goals? What are your thoughts? Successes? Failures? Thank you so much for any information! I like the occasional breakfast bar or snack when I don’t have a chance to cook for myself or haven’t been prepared enough to get my self something done the night before. I am now doing a daily shop, rather than a big weekly one, so I can get everything fresh from the butchers, fishmongers or greengrocers and it has made a huge difference to the way my food tastes as well. I always fall off the wagon when I start munching the low carb sweeties so I don’t buy them now – LOL Elise 180/175.6/140

Response:

I lost over 35 pounds by eating fresh low carb foods since 2002. Now that there are literally thousands of prepared products to choose from, I still find my best success at weight management comes when I limit myself to those low carb foods I prepare myself. I am writing a research paper on this – has the mass introduction of low carb products on the market negatively effected your low carb diet goals? What are your thoughts? Successes? Failures? Thank you so much for any information!

I like the occasional breakfast bar or snack when I don’t have a chance to cook for myself or haven’t been prepared enough to get my self something done the night before. I am now doing a daily shop, rather than a big weekly one, so I can get everything fresh from the butchers, fishmongers or greengrocers and it has made a huge difference to the way my food tastes as well. I always fall off the wagon when I start munching the low carb sweeties so I don’t buy them now – LOL Elise 180/175.6/140

Response:

It’s wrong to lump all low carb "convenience" foods together. There’s quite a difference between foods like LC candy and a jar of LC bread and butter pickles, or ketchup, for example. Even the people that constantly make negative comments about them are often users of products like LC flavoring syrups, or sucralose, which somehow in their logic is OK for them, but if someone else likes sweet relish in a jar, that’s bad. I find the wide variety of LC products available to big a tremendous help and to make LC livable. The products I use most are ketchup, pickles, sweet relish, muffin mix, and flavored syrups. And I don’t buy the idea that they somehow will make people fail. Sure, you have to read the labels and excercise some judgement, but you have to do that anyway with LC. I think the ones that fail would fail anyway because they are too lazy to read a book and do it right.

Response:

|| I lost over 35 pounds by eating fresh low carb foods since 2002. Now || that there are literally thousands of prepared products to choose || from, I still find my best success at weight management comes when I || limit myself to those low carb foods I prepare myself. I am writing || a research paper on this – has the mass introduction of low carb || products on the market negatively effected your low carb diet goals? || What are your thoughts? Successes? Failures? Thank you so much || for any information! Those of us who have been low-carbing for a while and have tried many of the fast food products eventually learn exactly what you said — our weight loss is most consistent when we eat freshly prepared foods (meat and vegetables) each meal. The convenience foods may be ok occassionally, but not on a daily basis. But if anyone rants about those foods or stops losing weight because of them; shame on them — nobody forces us to eat anything we don’t want to. It’s no different than the "low-fat" frankenfoods that have been out there on the market for several years; I know several people who have continued to gain weight eating low-fat ice cream and low-fat candybars, etc. It’s no different with low-cab frankenfoods. Unfortunately a lot of people are still looking for a quick fix and are unwilling to take personal responsibility for their overeating. Now they have a new scapegoat: the manufactures of commercial low-carb food products. The reality is that a low-carb way of eating takes a little minimal effort in grocery shopping, planning and preparing each meal. Maybe it’s not so bad after all though; it reminds me of when I was a kid and my mother cooked every meal and the whole family actually sat down together around a table and ate, then we all helped to clean up the kitchen and do the dishes. many people these days are spoled rotten by convenience foods (I was one of them) and have forgotten that prepared meals — while extra work — can be an enjoyable part of the daily routine And for low-carb success, setting aside the time each day for these meals is necessary. — Peter 270/219/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

There’s odd trickles of research on low-carb diets on diabetics, which might be helpful – the consensus seems to be that it’s as good a diet as any, and some people are saying the obvious, that it’s a lot easier on the pancreas. I can’t remember any research on absorption of sugar alcohols, but that’d be worth looking for – some diabetics (who of course are the only group likely to be measuring) say that sugar alcohols have as great an effect as full-carb sugar on their blood glucose. There are tables around that suggest the different absorption rates for the different -ols. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/79/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

I was going to bash the LC products at first blush, but I changed my mind. I think that alot of the candies and treats have caused many newbies to fail right off the bat. They have also created a new market by which the media and the nay sayers can say that a LC lifestyle doesn’t work. That said….. I use lots of them, and they make my life easier, and more enjoyable for the most part. Now I don’t have to find or make my own ketchup, ice cream, milk, etc. My meals still consist of 99% whole foods, so a treat now and then is welcome. — *Atkins guy, 50 lbs permanently off over 6 years! — JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Response:

Many of the "manufactured" low carb foods don’t taste very good, and I don’t buy them after the first trial and taste. Some of the "sugar free" candies taste pretty good. Some taste terrible. I no longer buy the good tasting sugar free ones because of the tendency to eat a lot of them…. and calories ultimately do count. So, in the end, the low cal foods that I eat, and that keep me on the path to lower weight are those that I cook from scratch. For the most part, the manufactured low carb foods are personal failures for me…. either poor taste or continuing a poor habit such as candy eating. Some of the low carb ice creams taste good enough that a half a gallon lasts two days before I eat it all, and therefore, I no longer buy those ice cream low carb products.

Response:

There are only a few low carb items that I buy- the rest I ignore. I must have carb countdown milk, low carb ketchup, sugar free pancake syrup, Atkins cereal and shakes, low carb baking mix. Low carb menus in restaurants are nice, but not necessary- just give me freedom to pick my side dishes and how I have my entree prepared I use more whole foods, and actually use less processed foods, not trusting what ingredients are in it. A Lintz 85% cocoa bar is real chocolate, low sugar and 4 net carbs a square-and no stomach ache. — Diane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I lost over 35 pounds by eating fresh low carb foods since 2002. Now that there are literally thousands of prepared products to choose from, I still find my best success at weight management comes when I limit myself to those low carb foods I prepare myself. I am writing a research paper on this – has the mass introduction of low carb products on the market negatively effected your low carb diet goals? What are your thoughts? Successes? Failures? Thank you so much for any information!

Response:

Strips on ebay

admin — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve been having fun on ebay recently – the exchange rate is so good against the US dollar that test strips are sometimes going very cheaply. I’ve just bought 300 for

I need soem sugar free electrolyte's what to get?

admin — Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

::: Though the reason I can’t have any carbs is because I am glucose ::: intolerant. :: :: Are you sure it’s *glucose* you’re intolerant to, and not the crap :: that’s usually packaged with it? I mean, glucose is like water to :: the body – if you’re allergic to it, you’d be dead. Something to :: try: Go to your local pharmacy and get a small package of pure :: glucose tablets (diabetics use these). Make sure there’s nothing in :: them but glucose! It might say "dextrose" in the ingredients; :: dextrose and glucose refer to the same molecule. Then, try one. If :: that works out, try two, etc. Obviously, do not add anything else :: to your diet at the same time. The ones I have are all flavored, so there must be something in them other than glucose, right?

Response:

The ones I have are all flavored, so there must be something in them other than glucose, right?

Yes, but ask the pharmacist, they might be able to procure pure tablets. If all else fails, mail order a bag of dextrose. http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/dextrose.html

Response:

::: The ones I have are all flavored, so there must be something in them ::: other than glucose, right? :: :: Yes, but ask the pharmacist, they might be able to procure pure :: tablets. If all else fails, mail order a bag of dextrose. :: :: http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/dextrose.html Yeah….I have several of those bags….

Response:

Though the reason I can’t have any carbs is because I am glucose intolerant. Are you sure it’s *glucose* you’re intolerant to, and not the crap that’s usually packaged with it? I mean, glucose is like water to the body – if you’re allergic to it, you’d be dead. Something to try: Go

Actually, if you do a web search, "glucose intolerance" comes up as a recognized condition, although it usually seems to be used as ~= insulin resistance. In the articles I read it doesn’t seem to work in quite the same way other intolerances do (e.g. lactose intolerance). Martha — "ALPO is 99 cents a can. That’s over SEVEN dog dollars!!" Revek – ASDLC

Response:

Are you sure it’s *glucose* you’re intolerant to, and not the crap that’s usually packaged with it? I mean, glucose is like water to the body – if you’re allergic to it, you’d be dead. Something to try: Go to your local pharmacy and get a small package of pure glucose tablets (diabetics use these). Make sure there’s nothing in them but glucose! It might say "dextrose" in the ingredients; dextrose and glucose refer to the same molecule. Then, try one. If that works out, try two, etc. Obviously, do not add anything else to your diet at the same time.

any carbs really. it does not seem to matter what type including glucose and dextrose or any sugar. I have leaky gut and between both of them almost anything new would set me off. though finally I am starting to heal and I feel better. but I will stay away from carbs as much as I can till my body can actually use them. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

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my doc says that’s about the only type that comes up on goggle but there are several types. my body just does not use sugar well. it’s most likely from obesity and loosing the weight may fix it. but I could eat a 7oz Hershey bar and not get a sugar high and not gain weight it got so bad. but I have had heartburn since I was 11 or so and grains always set it off worse then anything else. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

I have leaky gut and between both of them almost anything new would set me off.

Still, glucose is the form carbs take when they’re in the bloodstream. That’s why I thought about pure glucose – it doesn’t have all the additives that LGS would have problems with, and the glucose itself might be OK to cross that barrier. But it was just a thought.

Response:

it might. hell though this has helped me get off all the sweet cravings. a little splenda and I am fine. I think I will be able to handle tiny amounts of sugar in the future. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

I think I will be able to handle tiny amounts of sugar in the future.

Sugar – sucrose – is NOT something you normally find in the bloodstream. Hence I specifically mentioned dextrose (glucose) and not some other sugar. Again, ask your pharmacist if they have a PURE DEXTROSE or PURE GLUCOSE tablet you can try. If it happens to work, it’s yet another thing you can use to keep the calories up.

Response:

Make your own. NaCl (salt) and water KCl (sodium free salt) and water What else do you want in your electrolyte?

how would I know? (G) I did find one at the health food store. it also has calcium magnesium manganese and chromium. no sugar or carbs. but it does have citric acid. that’s something I could live without. I also found smart water. it has electrolytes in it and nothing else. but at 1 to 2.00 a day it’s too spendy. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

I did find one at the health food store. it also has calcium magnesium manganese and chromium. no sugar or carbs. but it does have citric acid. that’s something I could live without.

Ok, go to the supermarket and find Morton Lite Salt. Not NoSalt, not other brands. Morton Lite Salt has sodium, potassium, magnesium, and calcium. Yes, it has traces of dextrose, but (1) it’s negligible even on LC, and (2) if you have to have carbs, dextrose is the best carb to have. Mix 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon per 16oz water to start, perhaps a pinch of artificial sweetener as needed to offset the salty taste. Or, just use it like regular salt on your food. Warning: too much potassium can be dangerous. Don’t put in so much that you’re drinking brine.

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|| it can’t have any carbs at all. any idea’s? Add Lite salt to your food. (Potassium chloride) — Peter 270/219/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

I will check it out. Though the reason I can’t have any carbs is because I am glucose intolerant. and even a tiny amount can set off an allergic reaction. it drives me nuts sometimes even 1/2 packet of splenda in peanut butter was enough to trigger it. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

Though the reason I can’t have any carbs is because I am glucose intolerant.

Response:

it can’t have any carbs at all. any idea’s? — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

it can’t have any carbs at all. any idea’s?

Make your own. NaCl (salt) and water KCl (sodium free salt) and water What else do you want in your electrolyte?

Response:

:: ::: it can’t have any carbs at all. any idea’s? ::: :: :: Make your own. :: :: NaCl (salt) and water :: :: KCl (sodium free salt) and water :: :: What else do you want in your electrolyte? How about from fruit 20 to make it have some taste?

Response:

it can’t have any carbs at all. any idea’s?

I s’uggest you read "Going Po’stal" by Terry Pratchett. — Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Response:

Hospital Visit

admin — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Patrick I started the evening dose of Levemir a month ago, and now he wants me to do a daytime one, which is fine, as my afternoon BG was starting to rise. But my main problem is and always has been high FBG’s and they are pretty high. I see what you mean by testing every hour or so, yes it would disturb my pattern, but i’m not sure if i am low at night or just rising. I will keep trying. I have also just given up smoking ( after reading your previous posts ) ) , and am now giving up drinking Stella and switching to Red Wine. I low carb / Excersie / the bloody lot ! But still have high FBG’s. I will start on a lower dose of levemir for the day and check whats happening at night. Thank You Su

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su With specific regards to morning Bgs … once you get the evening levemir dose right, you won’t need to worry about hypos – unless you have varying nights of sleep activity and sleep walk or something like that. I take lantus in one dose of 28u. If i go to bed at 12:00am with a reading of 5 to 6 mmol/l i will wake up with a reading of between 4 and 5 mmol/l. The day my FBG starts to worsen is the day i will adjust the dose of the lantus. How much levemir are you taking? You might find you set your alarm for odd times in the night during the first week, or what you could do is start on a very low evening dose and increase it 2 u at a time until you get an acceptable morning reading … but your best friend here is your meter and your alarm clock. Bearing in mind you only need to drop 3 mmol or so you won’t need much levemir for that. I don’t know if you’ve calculated how much levemir you need whilst sleeping to drop yourself around 3mmol/l Maybe start with 2u before bed and take it from there. One thing that has been said before is that with any adjustment, don’t adjust too much too fast and only adjust one thing at once until you understand exactly what is going on. What i would NOT do is simply inject the same dose of levemir for the night that you take for the day time, i think that would result in you waking up with a hypo or worse. I would also suspect that if you tested every 2 hours during the night,. you’d not get a decent sleep and your morning readings may well be affected by that and when you return to a normal sleep pattern they might change again. However one night where you test every 3 or 4 hours would at least tell you what pattern your night time bgs follow. I am surprised your consultant didn’t give you a starting injection amount though ….. Patrick.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su

With specific regards to morning Bgs … once you get the evening levemir dose right, you won’t need to worry about hypos – unless you have varying nights of sleep activity and sleep walk or something like that. I take lantus in one dose of 28u. If i go to bed at 12:00am with a reading of 5 to 6 mmol/l i will wake up with a reading of between 4 and 5 mmol/l. The day my FBG starts to worsen is the day i will adjust the dose of the lantus. How much levemir are you taking? You might find you set your alarm for odd times in the night during the first week, or what you could do is start on a very low evening dose and increase it 2 u at a time until you get an acceptable morning reading … but your best friend here is your meter and your alarm clock. Bearing in mind you only need to drop 3 mmol or so you won’t need much levemir for that. I don’t know if you’ve calculated how much levemir you need whilst sleeping to drop yourself around 3mmol/l Maybe start with 2u before bed and take it from there. One thing that has been said before is that with any adjustment, don’t adjust too much too fast and only adjust one thing at once until you understand exactly what is going on. What i would NOT do is simply inject the same dose of levemir for the night that you take for the day time, i think that would result in you waking up with a hypo or worse. I would also suspect that if you tested every 2 hours during the night,. you’d not get a decent sleep and your morning readings may well be affected by that and when you return to a normal sleep pattern they might change again. However one night where you test every 3 or 4 hours would at least tell you what pattern your night time bgs follow. I am surprised your consultant didn’t give you a starting injection amount though ….. Patrick.

Response:

I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su

Response:

I’d keep the daytime levemir the same and take a smaller night time dosage. Start small though …and test regularly the first night to see what happens. I’d say every 3 or 4 hours would be frequent enough. What you could also do is set your alarm for random times of the night for a week before you change anything so you get a good idea of exactly where your blood sugar rises and by how much. As for swapping stella for red wine that’s a great idea. However when drinking wine there are some kinds that are sweetened and some that are not. I find hardys, jacobs creek to be ok for that, your experience may differ. Have you tried one glass of red wine before you go to bed? If your day time numbers are fine i would leave them alone and concentrate on the night time ones. What reading do you get before you go to bed? I’m assuming that with your previous Hba1c that your general control is very good? Giving up smoking may also cause a rise in BGs as well as a desire to eat like a starved goat :p

Response:

Patrick….. i’m confused….. why do you want to DROP 3mmol over night with the Levemir i would have thought you want to remain at the same reading you had BEFORE you went to bed…… or am i reading something wrong here?? kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Patrick I started the evening dose of Levemir a month ago, and now he wants me to do a daytime one, which is fine, as my afternoon BG was starting to rise. But my main problem is and always has been high FBG’s and they are pretty high. I see what you mean by testing every hour or so, yes it would disturb my pattern, but i’m not sure if i am low at night or just rising. I will keep trying. I have also just given up smoking ( after reading your previous posts ) ) , and am now giving up drinking Stella and switching to Red Wine. I low carb / Excersie / the bloody lot ! But still have high FBG’s. I will start on a lower dose of levemir for the day and check whats happening at night. Thank You Su I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su With specific regards to morning Bgs … once you get the evening levemir dose right, you won’t need to worry about hypos – unless you have varying nights of sleep activity and sleep walk or something like that. I take lantus in one dose of 28u. If i go to bed at 12:00am with a reading of 5 to 6 mmol/l i will wake up with a reading of between 4 and 5 mmol/l. The day my FBG starts to worsen is the day i will adjust the dose of the lantus. How much levemir are you taking? You might find you set your alarm for odd times in the night during the first week, or what you could do is start on a very low evening dose and increase it 2 u at a time until you get an acceptable morning reading … but your best friend here is your meter and your alarm clock. Bearing in mind you only need to drop 3 mmol or so you won’t need much levemir for that. I don’t know if you’ve calculated how much levemir you need whilst sleeping to drop yourself around 3mmol/l Maybe start with 2u before bed and take it from there. One thing that has been said before is that with any adjustment, don’t adjust too much too fast and only adjust one thing at once until you understand exactly what is going on. What i would NOT do is simply inject the same dose of levemir for the night that you take for the day time, i think that would result in you waking up with a hypo or worse. I would also suspect that if you tested every 2 hours during the night,. you’d not get a decent sleep and your morning readings may well be affected by that and when you return to a normal sleep pattern they might change again. However one night where you test every 3 or 4 hours would at least tell you what pattern your night time bgs follow. I am surprised your consultant didn’t give you a starting injection amount though ….. Patrick.

Response:

Hello su I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for me. I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have been told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. I am waiting to hear from Hope hospital about my pump very soon as I have managed to get a 3 month free trial. Will let you all know how it goes. All the Best Carl Type 1 for 21 years (18 of them fine, 2 Not Bad and 1 bloody awful)

Response:

I’m not being clear am i I meant to say that you should leave the daytime levemir alone and ADD 2 units at night and increase it in 2u steps until you get a satisfactory FBG. I.e. TWO injections. one daytime that she’s currently already doing and one MORE at night ;) I’ve had a long day … sorry if i’m not being clear

Response:

ahhhh ok makes more sense the only other part of this equation that i would question is what is the pre=bed bg reading…… if that is high then the levemir might be holding Su steady thru the night…. and that would indicate that the evening meals’ insulin needs to be kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not being clear am i I meant to say that you should leave the daytime levemir alone and ADD 2 units at night and increase it in 2u steps until you get a satisfactory FBG. I.e. TWO injections. one daytime that she’s currently already doing and one MORE at night ;) I’ve had a long day … sorry if i’m not being clear

Response:

". . .. For some reason last night my BG was 23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. . ." I find that when, for any reason, my sugar ends up much higher than 9 or so, I need proportionally more insulin to control it than when at lower sugars, i.e. any given amount of insulin has less effect. In my case, a sugar near 11 requires twice as much insulin to move my sugar some fixed amount when compared to the effects of insulin when I am closer to 5 or 6. The medical sites comment on this effect. They say that high blood sugar produces a temporary increase in Insulin Resistance for everybody, Type 1, Type 2 or whatever. My experience supports that statement. Therefore, if I were to go to bed at 23, I would expect my standard dose of basal to have scant chance of doing anything all all to my FbG. I solve that problem by taking extra Humalog and staying up until I have normalized. IOW, I will not go to bed at anything above 9. If I am near 9 at bedtime, I will shoot a "supplemental bolus"** of Humalog then go to bed trusting the Humalog to knock my sugar to reasonable levels while I sleep. I don’t go to bed "on faith" at 12 or higher since I can’t be sure how low I will drop when I shoot enough Humalog to defeat the ultra-high bG. (** "supplemental bolus" is the name that technique is given on the medical sites.) Regards Old Al

Response:

i just want to confirm OldAl’s experience here for a bg level of 24 i have to take 15 units of insulin for a bg level of 9 i have to take 1 unit of insulin the amount of Humalog i take varies WIDELY based on my bg reading i would NEVER use Levemir or Lantus to ‘bring down my bg levels’ that’s the job of Humalog and a Levemir adjustment has a far longer impact than a Humalog adjustment has kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello su I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for me. I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have been told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. All the Best Carl" ". . .. For some reason last night my BG was 23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. . ." I find that when, for any reason, my sugar ends up much higher than 9 or so, I need proportionally more insulin to control it than when at lower sugars, i.e. any given amount of insulin has less effect. In my case, a sugar near 11 requires twice as much insulin to move my sugar some fixed amount when compared to the effects of insulin when I am closer to 5 or 6. The medical sites comment on this effect. They say that high blood sugar produces a temporary increase in Insulin Resistance for everybody, Type 1, Type 2 or whatever. My experience supports that statement. Therefore, if I were to go to bed at 23, I would expect my standard dose of basal to have scant chance of doing anything all all to my FbG. I solve that problem by taking extra Humalog and staying up until I have normalized. IOW, I will not go to bed at anything above 9. If I am near 9 at bedtime, I will shoot a "supplemental bolus"** of Humalog then go to bed trusting the Humalog to knock my sugar to reasonable levels while I sleep. I don’t go to bed "on faith" at 12 or higher since I can’t be sure how low I will drop when I shoot enough Humalog to defeat the ultra-high bG. (** "supplemental bolus" is the name that technique is given on the medical sites.) Regards Old Al

Response:

Patrick Before bed my numbers are 5.0 -7.0 but on waking they are ALWAYS above 13.0 and upto 20.0 I have tried a the usual things and looked at the dawn effect etc and had a snack / no snack / red wine /cheese /peanut butter etc etc. I have been lurking a while. Daytime I have always been fine its while I am asleep that the problem occurs. And yes my previous Hba1c’s have been fine. It all went to pot when I started Lantus, and now that I am on levemir I FEEL better but it has not solved the problem. Today I have taken my 1st daytime shot of Levemir. See how it goes. Red Wine: Jacobs Creek / Hardy’s / Rioja a good one ! Thanks Su

Response:

question – No – i haven;t a clue what its doing. Funnily enough I have taken my 1st daytime shot today at 10:00AM , 10units as opposed to the 31 I take at night, and it has made my BG drop from 11.1 is happening in the night, I think I may be dropping . Will continue to moniter. Su

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know how long levemir takes to work for you? If you inject it .. how long does it take before that injection starts to work. I found that for me and lantus i needed to inject it at teatime ( about 6.00pm) so that it was starting to work overnight and was working as i get up. I found that my bolus ( when shot correctly) covered my daytime needs with no problem. As with anything, always test when you change something and don’t change too much or too quickly as there are a lot of variables to take into account. What time have you been injecting levemir up till now?

Response:

It might be Somogyi effect rather than dawn effect, DP isn’t characteristically a large jump. Somogyi is more common in insulin users. A miscalculated evening insulin dose cause a low in the early hours and a rebound high, sometimes very high. Maybe your night dosage needs adjusting.

Response:

Do you know how long levemir takes to work for you? If you inject it .. how long does it take before that injection starts to work. I found that for me and lantus i needed to inject it at teatime ( about 6.00pm) so that it was starting to work overnight and was working as i get up. I found that my bolus ( when shot correctly) covered my daytime needs with no problem. As with anything, always test when you change something and don’t change too much or too quickly as there are a lot of variables to take into account. What time have you been injecting levemir up till now?

Response:

question – No – i haven;t a clue what its doing. Funnily enough I have taken my 1st daytime shot today at 10:00AM , 10units as opposed to the 31 I take at night, and it has made my BG drop from 11.1 what is happening in the night, I think I may be dropping . Will continue to moniter. Su

*snip* What you need to establish above all else is how fast the levemir starts to work and when it’s working at its hardest. What you do NOT want is to find the levemir kicking in at 4.00am when you’re soundly asleep. If you can pinpoint the time of your morning Bg rise, and you can work out how long the levemir takes to become active then you can better time the amount and time of injection. You obviously know how to test etc etc, and if you can find Oldal he’s also worth discussing this as he’s far more technically clued up about most of the modern insulins and how they work. If you’ve taken 10u this morning, are you going to take the remaining 21 at the usual time? There is a figure that gives you a good indication of how much basal insulin you need correlated to your weight and age etc, again Oldal had a lot of information about this. Oddly enough i found that lantus was quite sensitive, if i take 2u too much or 2u too little then my numbers defnitely suffer …. can’t comment on levemir as i’m not using it. In answer to your first sentence, i really would invest some time and effort in working out exactly what your body is doing overnight, without that information it’s going to prove difficult to make relevant changes to your insulin regieme. Break things down, get your daytime readings back to where you want them OR sort out your nighttime readings. What you can’t do is both at once, there’s just too many variables involved. http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/lantusnotes.htm This might give you some more information about how things are meant to work, i know the page says lantus but it also discusses levemir too. Cheers, Patrick

Response:

Yeh, have read about the somogyi effect, just couldn’t remember how to spell it. OldAl mentioned it to me ages ago. thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Patrick Before bed my numbers are 5.0 -7.0 but on waking they are ALWAYS above 13.0 and upto 20.0 I have tried a the usual things and looked at the dawn effect etc and had a snack / no snack / red wine /cheese /peanut butter etc etc. I have been lurking a while. It might be Somogyi effect rather than dawn effect, DP isn’t characteristically a large jump. Somogyi is more common in insulin users. A miscalculated evening insulin dose cause a low in the early hours and a rebound high, sometimes very high. Maybe your night dosage needs adjusting.

Response:

That is very interesting, the fact that you have to use differing amounts of insulin dependant upon your numbers. In fact it also answers some of my questions. All this info is very valuable, and in actaul fact i am strtaing to make a bit more sense of what could be happening. You know when you get yourself into the situation "wood for the trees", I think thats where I have been. I never imagined that I would need more insulin at a higher BG of say 19.8 than I would at 8.2 but it makes sense. Cheers Su

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i just want to confirm OldAl’s experience here for a bg level of 24 i have to take 15 units of insulin for a bg level of 9 i have to take 1 unit of insulin the amount of Humalog i take varies WIDELY based on my bg reading i would NEVER use Levemir or Lantus to ‘bring down my bg levels’ that’s the job of Humalog and a Levemir adjustment has a far longer impact than a Humalog adjustment has kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Hello su I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for me. I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have been told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. All the Best Carl" ". . .. For some reason last night my BG was 23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. . ." I find that when, for any reason, my sugar ends up much higher than 9 or so, I need proportionally more insulin to control it than when at lower sugars, i.e. any given amount of insulin has less effect. In my case, a sugar near 11 requires twice as much insulin to move my sugar some fixed amount when compared to the effects of insulin when I am closer to 5 or 6. The medical sites comment on this effect. They say that high blood sugar produces a temporary increase in Insulin Resistance for everybody, Type 1, Type 2 or whatever. My experience supports that statement. Therefore, if I were to go to bed at 23, I would expect my standard dose of basal to have scant chance of doing anything all all to my FbG. I solve that problem by taking extra Humalog and staying up until I have normalized. IOW, I will not go to bed at anything above 9. If I am near 9 at bedtime, I will shoot a "supplemental bolus"** of Humalog then go to bed trusting the Humalog to knock my sugar to reasonable levels while I sleep. I don’t go to bed "on faith" at 12 or higher since I can’t be sure how low I will drop when I shoot enough Humalog to defeat the ultra-high bG. (** "supplemental bolus" is the name that technique is given on the medical sites.) Regards Old Al

Response:

Shows how much he "kows" then doesn’t it? It’s only retrograde if it didn’t work and it did. And it still does. TELL him you want to try beef, don’t ask. Beav

Response:

Carl my consultant wants me to give the levemir "a good go", anmd I will certainly try. My exp. on Lantus was horrific, I too feel better on Levemir, but my numbers are wackier. Today is my 1st day of split doses, so #I will see how it goes. Good luck with the pump trial, how does the funding work..? Is it the primary care trust that pays or do you have to supplement it..? Su Type1 since 2001. Levemir & Novorapid 37yr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello su I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for me. I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have been told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. I am waiting to hear from Hope hospital about my pump very soon as I have managed to get a 3 month free trial. Will let you all know how it goes. All the Best Carl Type 1 for 21 years (18 of them fine, 2 Not Bad and 1 bloody awful) I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su

Response:

It’s Primary Care Trust as far as I know. Haven’t heard anything as yet, so trying to keep faith with levemir. Carl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl my consultant wants me to give the levemir "a good go", anmd I will certainly try. My exp. on Lantus was horrific, I too feel better on Levemir, but my numbers are wackier. Today is my 1st day of split doses, so #I will see how it goes. Good luck with the pump trial, how does the funding work..? Is it the primary care trust that pays or do you have to supplement it..? Su Type1 since 2001. Levemir & Novorapid 37yr Hello su I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for me. I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have been told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. I am waiting to hear from Hope hospital about my pump very soon as I have managed to get a 3 month free trial. Will let you all know how it goes. All the Best Carl Type 1 for 21 years (18 of them fine, 2 Not Bad and 1 bloody awful) I don’t know whther anyone remembers but I moved from Lantus onto Levemir 1 month ago, to try to reduce my FBG which can vary frp, 13.0-20.0. Since starting the Levemir I FEEL better, but have found that it runs out after 11 hrs as opposed to the 19hrs that Lantus gave me. Saw my consultant today – he told me to take 2 doses of Levemir AM/PM and to keep increasing my night time dose until my morning sugars come down. I asked him if that was safe- considering may be hypoing at night… What I will do is wake up every 2hrs to check my night time sugars to see what is going on, but I am just SO fed up of it now. The hospital have also mentioned the pump, but want to try the levemir first. I asked about animal insulin as advised on this NG, but was told that it was a "retrograde" step. Also since changing to Lantus and then Levemir my Hba1C has gone from 5.2 to 7.1 – 8.1. Just wanted to offload really. Su

Response:

If it was Somogyi, I would’ve thought a nighttime snack would’ve addressed it, or at least given a clue. Maybe a snack wouldn’t have stopped it dead, but it would’ve slowed the drop to the point where she *may* have not gone so low she got a massive re-bound. It IS something to consider though. Beav

Response:

Su, I’m interested in your comment there. It seems that you haven’t used different amounts of insulin to do "different things" I look on insulin shots like I look at food. If I’m only a little hungry, I only eat a little, and if my sugars are only a little high, I only use a little insulin and vice-versa. If I’m high, then the insulin dose is adjusted upwards to speed things up. Of course, if you go daft, then you’ve got to be prepared to catch any "incoming" that may arrive and this can lead very quickly to massive weight gains as you subsequently need to feed the insulin to fight the incoming hypo. I never imagined that I would need more insulin at a higher BG of say 19.8 than I would at 8.2 but it makes sense.

It makes perfect sense BUT…. only if you make sure you record the numbers and the effect of the insulin doses. We begin by guessing how much we need, but eventually it becomes less guesswork and more experience. Like Kate knows how many units to shoot for a particular BG number and how much to shoot for another BG number. These doses are learned through trial and (hopefully not many) error(s). Recording the numbers and the doses makes life SO much easier and safer, so it’s not something that shouldn’t be done. Nowadays the medical community call this approach "Dafne" which stands for "Dosing as for normal eating" (there are courses for it now too!!) This approach where each insulin shot is DIRECTLY related to what you’re about to eat/have eaten and your blood glucose level at the time. Adjustments can be made later on too, if your BG isn’t where it should be. Lots of us have been doing it for years, but we didn’t/don’t call it "Dafne", we simply call it MDI (Multiple Daily Injections) because that’s about all it really boils down to. Beav

Response:

Whenever I have trouble bringing down a high, I’ve found that not only do I need the insulin, but food too. Not a lot of food, but without it, the high resists lowering attempts more. Food seems to act as a trigger to get "everything " working as it should. Now this might not work for everyone, but it’s not a killer to try it. Beav

Response:

|Hello su |I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. | |My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for |me. |I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have |been |told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still |struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 |units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a |lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. | |Whenever I have trouble bringing down a high, I’ve found that not only do I |need the insulin, but food too. Not a lot of food, but without it, the high |resists lowering attempts more. Food seems to act as a trigger to get |"everything " working as it should. | |Now this might not work for everyone, but it’s not a killer to try it. | |Beav | Hi Beav That comment triggered a memory of an article published recently on HISS. I’ve not seen much discussion on it, and I’ve no idea if it’s being accepted by other scientists, but the basic logic was as follows: HISS stands for "hepatic insulin sensitizing substance". What it means is that when non-diabetics eat, the insulin which is released also triggers the release by the liver of HISS. The presence of HISS then effectively doubles the effectiveness of that insulin on our blood glucose. Thus, the act of eating leads to both insulin and HISS as part of the insulin/glucose system in a normal person. In a significant number of type 2 diabetics, the release of HISS is impaired or absent. This leads to HDIR or "HISS-dependent insulin resistance". I don’t remember type 1 being mentioned, but if his logic is correct, then you would be producing the HISS but not the insulin when you eat, thus increasing the effect of the insulin you inject. The url is http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/95/1/9/_pdf I posted some comments on it on asd/mhd at http://tinyurl.com/4k8wp . In fairness, if you read the replies on the thread, Frank and Jefferson weren’t over-enthused with the researcher. Maybe some food for thought though. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | |Hello su |I remember you were struggling on the Levemir the same as I am. | |My sugars are better than they were on Lantus,that stuff was lethal for |me. |I am struggling to balance the Levemir along side my NovoRapid, I have |been |told to inject some more Levemir in the morning which I do but still |struggle. For some reason last night my BG was23.4 before bed. I took 40 |units of Levemir and by 9.00 am it had only dropped to 18.2, so I had a |lousy no energy morning until the Novorapid kicked in. | |Whenever I have trouble bringing down a high, I’ve found that not only do I |need the insulin, but food too. Not a lot of food, but without it, the high |resists lowering attempts more. Food seems to act as a trigger to get |"everything " working as it should. | |Now this might not work for everyone, but it’s not a killer to try it. | |Beav | Hi Beav That comment triggered a memory of an article published recently on HISS. I’ve not seen much discussion on it, and I’ve no idea if it’s being accepted by other scientists, but the basic logic was as follows: HISS stands for "hepatic insulin sensitizing substance". What it means is that when non-diabetics eat, the insulin which is released also triggers the release by the liver of HISS. The presence of HISS then effectively doubles the effectiveness of that insulin on our blood glucose. Thus, the act of eating leads to both insulin and HISS as part of the insulin/glucose system in a normal person.

Very interesting Al, cheers for that. It’s something I’ve not seen before, but although I don’t know the mechanics of it, I do know (for me) it’s a fact of life. In a significant number of type 2 diabetics, the release of HISS is impaired or absent. This leads to HDIR or "HISS-dependent insulin resistance". I don’t remember type 1 being mentioned, but if his logic is correct, then you would be producing the HISS but not the insulin when you eat, thus increasing the effect of the insulin you inject.

Seems so, and of course, as a T1 I don’t suppose I produce much insulin anyway. Maybe some, but certainly not enough to have any effect on my BG. I rather like this idea of having it’s effectiveness doubled by scoffing though )) The url is http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/95/1/9/_pdf

I’ll give that a serious perusing. I posted some comments on it on asd/mhd at http://tinyurl.com/4k8wp . In fairness, if you read the replies on the thread, Frank and Jefferson weren’t over-enthused with the researcher.

I’ve not "MHD’d" for a while. Maybe some food for thought though.

And talking of food, I had pancakes for tea tonight. 5 of them, with lemon and SUGAR. One hour after eating them, my BG was 1 point below what it was before I started. I never even topped 8mmol/l. Started at 7.5, an hour later, 6.5. Beav

Response:

Rate of change of blood glucose with food type

admin — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

First of all a thank you to all who contributed to the other thread – I thought a worthwhile and useful discussion. Now my next question. I’ve been trying different foods and combinations over the last few days and comparing results when measuring afterwards. I’ve also been reading up about glycaemic index etc. Dinner yesterday (turkey, peas and a little fettucine in a creamy sauce worked quite well with peak BG level of 7.7 an hour after and falling after that. Today was some ham and a medium baked potato plus green vegetables and a parsley sauce. I decided to eat all of the potato to see what would happen. This was still a smaller potato than I have eaten typically in the past. Knowing that potatoes have a high GI (85?) I expected an early glucose peak and higher than yesterday’s. I found a figure of 32 for fettucine. Sure enough, the peak was after an hour at 10.3mmol/l. WHat surprised me was the rapid drop. At two hours the level had fallen to 4.5 and was still at that level at three hours. I just did a four hour measurement and the figure has gone up to 5.3 – i.e. about my typical fasting baseline. I had been pottering about in the garage this evening, but nothing strenuous. At the 4.5 level I was feeling a little light headed. So…. I expected that there would be a peak that was both higher and sharper. I didn’t expect that the level would fall to almost 1mmol/l below my fasting level and so quickly. I presume that the recovery back up (I haven’t eaten anything else) was due to glycogen from the liver? Can anybody explain the undershoot effect? It didn’t seem to happen yesterday. Is this a consequence of the height of the peak or an effect of the specific food? Had I eaten less of the potato, would I expect a lower peak over about the same amount of time and less of the undershoot effect? Further question. I have also been looking at glycaemic load, but can find less information on it. Are there some good resources? It seems that this may be a better guideline than GI perhaps? It appears that GL is GI multiplied by the carbohydrate content, but is this the carbohydrate percentage or amount eaten? Any other comments on this area? thanks again — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all a thank you to all who contributed to the other thread – I thought a worthwhile and useful discussion. Now my next question. I’ve been trying different foods and combinations over the last few days and comparing results when measuring afterwards. I’ve also been reading up about glycaemic index etc. Dinner yesterday (turkey, peas and a little fettucine in a creamy sauce worked quite well with peak BG level of 7.7 an hour after and falling after that. Today was some ham and a medium baked potato plus green vegetables and a parsley sauce. I decided to eat all of the potato to see what would happen. This was still a smaller potato than I have eaten typically in the past. Knowing that potatoes have a high GI (85?) I expected an early glucose peak and higher than yesterday’s. I found a figure of 32 for fettucine. Sure enough, the peak was after an hour at 10.3mmol/l. WHat surprised me was the rapid drop. At two hours the level had fallen to 4.5 and was still at that level at three hours. I just did a four hour measurement and the figure has gone up to 5.3 – i.e. about my typical fasting baseline. I had been pottering about in the garage this evening, but nothing strenuous. At the 4.5 level I was feeling a little light headed. So…. I expected that there would be a peak that was both higher and sharper. I didn’t expect that the level would fall to almost 1mmol/l below my fasting level and so quickly. I presume that the recovery back up (I haven’t eaten anything else) was due to glycogen from the liver? Can anybody explain the undershoot effect? It didn’t seem to happen yesterday. Is this a consequence of the height of the peak or an effect of the specific food? Had I eaten less of the potato, would I expect a lower peak over about the same amount of time and less of the undershoot effect? Further question. I have also been looking at glycaemic load, but can find less information on it. Are there some good resources? It seems that this may be a better guideline than GI perhaps? It appears that GL is GI multiplied by the carbohydrate content, but is this the carbohydrate percentage or amount eaten? Any other comments on this area? thanks again

Andy, I have no links to back this up, but some personal experience. NO doubt someone will be able to post one if necessary. Baking a potato increases it GI. I first heard about this from an Atkins user. Since then I have heard about it from other sources. Not sure what you know so far but there is a phase I and phase II insulin response. Type 2s lack the full phase I response which is what would normally trigger immediately on eating to counteract carbs. However you do have the phase II, also triggered by eating, but a slower long-term release. The baked spud hits your BG hard and fast but is consumed very quickly. So by the time your phase II response kicks in fully a lot of the glucose has been dealt with. The phase II response then has little to work on and sends you plummeting. The other food that I have noticed this with particularly is cereal bars due to their surprisingly high level of glucose. Good for treating a low but only in the very short term. Be particularly wary of these foods after exercising. I assume you have looked at mendosa.com for GI and GL? Its one of the best starting points and has links to other resources. There are also numerous books on the subject although I cannot recommend one particularly. Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes. However, they are a good example of why you should test at 1 hr and not 2. Latest recommendations are to test at 90 mins since this is the normal peak. However if I had stuck to 90 or even the recommended 120 mins testing I would not have seen the baked potato effect. When I was first dxed I went through a phase of knocking out as many starchy foods as possible – bread, potatoes, pasta, rice – and keeping a fairly boring diet for a while. When introducing new foods I had a better idea of what that single new food did to me in a known combination. Losing the starches also helped me to bring down my BG. I introduced starches back in, in limited quantities to a level which I am comfortable with since I now know the effect. You may find this approach useful, but I am sure you can find your own way. DM and the effects that food have on you are very personal and although there are general "rules" on what is good and bad, you may find that foods which hit others very badly do not affect you as much. You seem to be doing well on your personal journey of discovery. Keep it up and keep asking those questions Hope this helps VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.6/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

snip The other food that I have noticed this with particularly is cereal bars due to their surprisingly high level of glucose. Good for treating a low but only in the very short term. Be particularly wary of these foods after exercising.

Mmmm, I’m missing something here – I carry this type of bar as a safeguard against lows when cycling. they quite often get eaten halfway on the ride if I start to get wobbly (4.5 ish). Alternatively I carry a normal size Marathon bar. Fred T2, 2 x 500mg Metformin, 2×80mg Gliclazide 1 x 80mg Valsartan, 1 x 100mg Atenolol

Response:

It does seem from the tables that baked potato has a much higher GI than other forms. Not sure what you know so far but there is a phase I and phase II insulin response. Type 2s lack the full phase I response which is what would normally trigger immediately on eating to counteract carbs. However you do have the phase II, also triggered by eating, but a slower long-term release.

I’ll check into that. The baked spud hits your BG hard and fast but is consumed very quickly. So by the time your phase II response kicks in fully a lot of the glucose has been dealt with. The phase II response then has little to work on and sends you plummeting. The other food that I have noticed this with particularly is cereal bars due to their surprisingly high level of glucose. Good for treating a low but only in the very short term.

I don’t tend to eat these, but have started looking for slower release things such as half a slice of wholemeal bread, and perhaps a tiny amount of something sweeter to produce a rapid effect if needed.. Be particularly wary of these foods after exercising. I assume you have looked at mendosa.com for GI and GL? Its one of the best starting points and has links to other resources. There are also numerous books on the subject although I cannot recommend one particularly.

I’ve started going through that site but hadn’t found that topic yet. Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes.

Well yes. I do quite like them, however, so my next try will be with a smaller one. However, they are a good example of why you should test at 1 hr and not 2. Latest recommendations are to test at 90 mins since this is the normal peak. However if I had stuck to 90 or even the recommended 120 mins testing I would not have seen the baked potato effect.

During these trials I have been testing at 1 and 2 hours so that I can get a feel for peak and rate of decay. When I was first dxed I went through a phase of knocking out as many starchy foods as possible – bread, potatoes, pasta, rice – and keeping a fairly boring diet for a while. When introducing new foods I had a better idea of what that single new food did to me in a known combination. Losing the starches also helped me to bring down my BG. I introduced starches back in, in limited quantities to a level which I am comfortable with since I now know the effect. You may find this approach useful, but I am sure you can find your own way.

I’ve really started by going for half of the erstwhile amount and adjusting up and down from there. That has certainly worked for pasta and bread for example. DM and the effects that food have on you are very personal and although there are general "rules" on what is good and bad, you may find that foods which hit others very badly do not affect you as much. You seem to be doing well on your personal journey of discovery. Keep it up and keep asking those questions

It’s quit elaborious, but discovering what works well and what doesn’t makes it interesting. Hope this helps

Yes it does and many thanks. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes. Well yes. I do quite like them, however, so my next try will be with a smaller one. Maybe a newer one? The GI seems lower for new potatoes and waxy ones. I noticed large-ish "new" pots in Tescos, maybe they’d be better. I can’t eat old pots at all, but I’m looking forward to trying the new spring ones! Incidentally, I noticed a book on the glycaemic load in Waterstones today – I didn’t get a lot of time to flick through, but it looked interesting apart from obviously being a marketing tool – the author is promising "low gl" chocolate bars real soon now. Nicky.

I do wish these people would stick to the science. The trouble is that it’s too tempting a business opportunity to sell the prepackaged foods for the latest fad diet. I suppose that books are OK, but the foods are nice repeat business……. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes. Well yes. I do quite like them, however, so my next try will be with a smaller one.

Maybe a newer one? The GI seems lower for new potatoes and waxy ones. I noticed large-ish "new" pots in Tescos, maybe they’d be better. I can’t eat old pots at all, but I’m looking forward to trying the new spring ones! Incidentally, I noticed a book on the glycaemic load in Waterstones today – I didn’t get a lot of time to flick through, but it looked interesting apart from obviously being a marketing tool – the author is promising "low gl" chocolate bars real soon now. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/80/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Going from one extreme to the other looks a bit like Reactive Hypoglycemia which is common in the pre-diabetic phase. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=reactive+hypoglycemia&btnG=Goo…

I wondered about that. Is Reactive Hypoglycaemia tha official medical term for glycaemia, or are there two different things? — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Incidentally, I noticed a book on the glycaemic load in Waterstones today – I didn’t get a lot of time to flick through, but it looked interesting apart from obviously being a marketing tool – the author is promising "low gl" chocolate bars real soon now. I do wish these people would stick to the science. The trouble is that it’s too tempting a business opportunity to sell the prepackaged foods for the latest fad diet. I suppose that books are OK, but the foods are nice repeat business…….

Yeah. But I got a nice reminder of how easy it is to be naturally low-carb today – I’m taking dessert round to a family do tomorrow, and I’ve cooked 2 lots of brownies to be eaten with icecream. One lot came out of a Carbsense packet, one I made from scratch using ground almonds as a base; of course we had to try them, and mine is nicer, for about the same carb count : ) Who needs frankenfoods : ) Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/80/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

Frankenfoods? I guess you mean synthetically manufactured, preprocessed stuff rather than a manufacturer of little German sausages? — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Frankenfoods? I guess you mean synthetically manufactured, preprocessed stuff rather than a manufacturer of little German sausages?

Indeed. I’m quite fond of little German sausages : ) Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/80/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes. Well yes. I do quite like them, however, so my next try will be with a smaller one. Maybe a newer one? The GI seems lower for new potatoes and waxy ones. I noticed large-ish "new" pots in Tescos, maybe they’d be better.

A lot of people find red-skinned spuds easier on the BG levels, too. I find I can have a small [maybe 4 or 5 oz] baked pot if the filling is plenty of tuna mayo, with a non-carby veg [broccoli, sprouts, spinach] or a side salad. I suspect that the relatively high fat content of the mayo combined with the relatively high fibre content of the veg checks the BG rise, but am not certain of that. Incidentally, I noticed a book on the glycaemic load in Waterstones today – I didn’t get a lot of time to flick through, but it looked interesting apart from obviously being a marketing tool – the author is promising "low gl" chocolate bars real soon now.

Name? Author? Price? Maggie — Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent. – RD Laing

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule for the day : avoid baked potatoes. Well yes. I do quite like them, however, so my next try will be with a smaller one. Maybe a newer one? The GI seems lower for new potatoes and waxy ones. I noticed large-ish "new" pots in Tescos, maybe they’d be better. A lot of people find red-skinned spuds easier on the BG levels, too. I find I can have a small [maybe 4 or 5 oz] baked pot if the filling is plenty of tuna mayo, with a non-carby veg [broccoli, sprouts, spinach] or a side salad. I suspect that the relatively high fat content of the mayo combined with the relatively high fibre content of the veg checks the BG rise, but am not certain of that.

Well, I think I’ll buy some Johnson and Johnson shares, since I am spending so much on test strips at the moment. As a brief aside, the UltraSmart meter seems to work quite well, and I am downloading it periodically and using the graphing. They have now made the One-Touch software officially available in the UK (although I simply downloaded it from the U.S. (it’s the same), and also got hold of a USB cable for a tenner. The doctor is going to make enquiries about prescription test strips but is pretty sure that the PCT won’t agree to regular prescriptions. A political decision and not his choice. Anyway….. I measured at 30 minute intervals after several dinners this week and seemed to find more or less what you described. I tried smaller quantities of higher GI things such as rice (along with meat, creamy sauce and green vegetables. I found that the duration of the peak was shortish in much the same way as with a larger amount – i.e. the curve didn’t widen. Same thing with a baked potato. A small one with extra bits as you describe, and the peak was 8.5 mmol/l and relatively short again. Another one was a piece of grilled salmon plus five small new potatoes and some green beans. This one was very successful at 7.5mmol/l peak and a very flat curve. So there seems to be something in the new potatoes idea. I made bread using a low carbohydrate bread mix today. Basically it is uneatable. Texture is rubbery and a peculiar taste. This would be a good way to put people off of bread….. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The doctor is going to make enquiries about prescription test strips but is pretty sure that the PCT won’t agree to regular prescriptions. A political decision and not his choice. This is the same cop-out mine is using. The PCT do recommendations, not mandates. Ask him how much he gets for having someone with a chronic disease on his books. I made bread using a low carbohydrate bread mix today. Basically it is uneatable. Texture is rubbery and a peculiar taste. This would be a good way to put people off of bread….. The only decent one I’ve found is the Carbophobia brand. Got to experiment on home mixes! Nicky.

Have you tried Burgen Soy & linseed bread? 11 carbs a slice and a low GI according to the figures on mendosa. Its edible and taken in moderation most people can manage it, I beleive. asda have it as do sainsburys. sainsburys also have another brand of S&L but I have not checked out what the GI is. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.6/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

The doctor is going to make enquiries about prescription test strips but is pretty sure that the PCT won’t agree to regular prescriptions. A political decision and not his choice.

This is the same cop-out mine is using. The PCT do recommendations, not mandates. Ask him how much he gets for having someone with a chronic disease on his books. I made bread using a low carbohydrate bread mix today. Basically it is uneatable. Texture is rubbery and a peculiar taste. This would be a good way to put people off of bread…..

The only decent one I’ve found is the Carbophobia brand. Got to experiment on home mixes! Nicky. — A1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/79/72Kg 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

The doctor is going to make enquiries about prescription test strips but is pretty sure that the PCT won’t agree to regular prescriptions. A political decision and not his choice. This is the same cop-out mine is using. The PCT do recommendations, not mandates.

I suspect that there are recommendations and *recommendations*. Next stop is to identify who the decision makers are in the PCT. To be honest, I would prefer not to have socialised medicine with government delivery at all, pay less national insurance just to cover those who can’t afford treatment, and then make my own healthcare payment arrangements. Ask him how much he gets for having someone with a chronic disease on his books.

Do you think that doctors get specific amounts for this? I made bread using a low carbohydrate bread mix today. Basically it is uneatable. Texture is rubbery and a peculiar taste. This would be a good way to put people off of bread….. The only decent one I’ve found is the Carbophobia brand. Got to experiment on home mixes!

This one was the Atkins one, I think. The soy content seems to create the taste of cardboard. What is the content of the Carbophobia one? Nicky.

– .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

If you have a bread machine, try this one [I don't know how you'd do it the old-fashioned way]: Buckwheat Bread Yield: 16 servings [in 8 slices] 7/8 c water 1 tbs margarine 1 ts salt 1 tbs dry milk 2 tsp sugar 1/4 c buckwheat flour 1 c bread flour 1 c wholemeal flour 1 pk (5/16-oz) fast-acting yeast Put all ingredients, in the order given, into the bread pan, select WHITE bread, and push Start. Makes 1 loaf, 8 slices [1 serving =