Diabetes Talking

Question:

Rob said:Before we started doling out all government income to senior citizens, we had enough for effective policing. Rob We are in agreement there.Now I wonder who put in all those social programs? I don’t think you can blame that on conservatives.                                  Hank

Response:

Rob said:Before we started doling out all government income to senior citizens, we had enough for effective policing. Rob We are in agreement there.Now I wonder who put in all those social programs? I don’t think you can blame that on conservatives.

Was Nixon a liberal? Rob — RSG-MS RSG Masters http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html email: Frostback2002atattdotnet Service is the rent we pay for being

Response:

Casey Martin never asked anyone to change the rules of PGA competition.

No, but he got an accomodation. He is selfish because he can’t accept the limitations of his life, and expects others to do something to make up for it. Hank, on the other hand, accepts noting from others, and takes care of himself. If he can’t do something, he just accepts it, as it would be unfair to expect other people to accomodate him for anything. Rob — RSG-MS RSG Masters http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html email: Frostback2002atattdotnet Service is the rent we pay for being

Response:

Casey Martin never asked anyone to change the rules of PGA competition. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick said:Casey Martin is a far left liberal? As far as I know no liberal group sponsored Casey Martin in his quest to use the ADA to change the rules of PGA competition and to suggest so is far right spin. Casey did it all on his own. — The DeMented Golfer Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear.                                Hank

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear. I didn’t think the Supreme Court was ruled by a liberal majority. Hint: it doesn’t. And what the hell are you talking about in the last sentence? Before we started doling out all government income to senior citizens, we had enough for effective policing. Rob

I take it that you won’t be collecting SS?   ___     o  ’      |       /       . "Someone likes every shot" bk  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear. I didn’t think the Supreme Court was ruled by a liberal majority. Hint: it doesn’t. And what the hell are you talking about in the last sentence?

Before we started doling out all government income to senior citizens, we had enough for effective policing. Rob — RSG-MS RSG Masters http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html email: Frostback2002atattdotnet Service is the rent we pay for being

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear. I didn’t think the Supreme Court was ruled by a liberal majority. Hint: it doesn’t. And what the hell are you talking about in the last sentence?

If he knew what he was talking about in the first sentence, he wouldn’t have written the second.   ___     o  ’      |       /       . "Someone likes every shot" bk  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is mentioned, one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions.

Walking is not essential, but getting from one hole to the next is quite essential to the game. The question is,  is it necessary that it be done on foot? — Eliyahu Rooff www.geocities.com/Area51/Underworld/8096/HomePage.htm RSG Rollcall http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/rooffe.htm

Response:

Personally, I favored the supreme court decision. My uncle disagreed with me.  We were in his van and I was listening to him rant and rave about it.  Conversation ended when he legally parked into the handicap parking spot.

But that’s not a good analogy, Greg.  Your uncle doesn’t make his living by how well and how quickly he gets from a parking space to the establishment compared to the others.  Were this a case where he would make his living by the measurement of his ability to do so, you can be damn sure he wouldn’t be parking in handicapped spots, closer to the store. But actually, you make a very good illustration of what martin getting a cart is like.

Response:

I take it that you won’t be collecting SS?

The way things are going, but the time I retire, there won’t be anything left. Rob — RSG-MS RSG Masters http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html email: Frostback2002atattdotnet Service is the rent we pay for being

Response:

Done get me wrong I think basicly the ADA is very good thing. The problems arise when the AD Act starts to over rule the Constitution and bill of rights.  ’All of us are created equal and have the same rights’. What comes from the left is a modified version ‘All of us are created equal, unless we have a disablilty then we should get special treatment’ That is one of the problems that comes from the far left, Some people just don’t think about what they’re doing before they do it. They just want it DONE, they forget (Ignore) that there may be repurcisions down the road, and are blinded by their ’cause’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the ADA was a product of the left.  *That* said, though, I’m sure there were many supporters of the ADA (myself among them) who never dreamed that some idiot would try to exploit it to change the rules of athletic competitions — much less that the courts would hear such a case — and least of all that the courts would sanction it!

Response:

I think your construct here is pretty accurate.  That said, though, the ADA was a product of the left.

It was more a product of GHWB wanting to have a legacy and to prove to the world that he was not mean-spritited. CA Remove NoSpam to email me directly. Troll intolerant.  I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Please see RSG Usenet Ignore Penalty (UIP) concerning trolls: http://home.globalfrontiers.com/rorider/ "The four rules for success are: Work hard Be creative Never tell them everything you know."                I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG.

Response:

Rick said:Casey Martin is a far left liberal? As far as I know no liberal group sponsored Casey Martin in his quest to use the ADA to change the rules of PGA competition and to suggest so is far right spin. Casey did it all on his own. — The DeMented Golfer Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear.                                Hank

Response:

Only liberal Judges would have ruled that the ADA should have applied in this case.No I certainly do not hate liberals. I only hate what they have done to our country over the last 25 years.Before that kids could play outside after dark without fear.

I didn’t think the Supreme Court was ruled by a liberal majority. Hint: it doesn’t. And what the hell are you talking about in the last sentence?

Response:

Casey Martin is a far left liberal?  As far as I know no liberal group sponsored Casey Martin in his quest to use the ADA to change the rules of PGA competition and to suggest so is far right spin.  Casey did it all on his own. — The DeMented Golfer "Golf spelled backwards is flog   Rick DeMent "Time to pull a quick Hank Snow." RSG roll call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/dementr.htm Spammers eat these:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bringing the  ADP into the Martin case is just another example of political correctness that the far left liberals are trying to bring into sports.Before long They will want Tiger to carry weights like they do horses.,just so he won’t make the other players feel bad about themselves.                                         Hank

Response:

Casey Martin is a far left liberal?  As far as I know no liberal group sponsored Casey Martin in his quest to use the ADA to change the rules of PGA competition and to suggest so is far right spin.  Casey did it all on his own.

Don’t try to apply logic to this, Rick.   I think the recipe works like this:   a) I hate liberals.   b) I disagree with the Martin decision.   c) Therefore, liberals are behind the Martin decision. Q.E.D. From what I’ve seen, agreement/disagreement with this decision does not fit neatly into any ‘box.’ Although, I have notice nearly universal ennui from the anarcho-syndicalists.  But I may be talking out of my ass (yet again). [Gee, can you tell whose had more than his fill of Casey Martin arguments ?] —       –dph       http://www.rec-sport-golf.com — RSG’s web complement

Response:

: : Casey Martin is a far left liberal?  As far as I know no liberal group : sponsored Casey Martin in his quest to use the ADA to change the rules of : PGA competition and to suggest so is far right spin.  Casey did it all on : his own. : : Don’t try to apply logic to this, Rick.   : : I think the recipe works like this: :   a) I hate liberals. :   b) I disagree with the Martin decision. :   c) Therefore, liberals are behind the Martin decision. :   : Q.E.D. I think your construct here is pretty accurate.  That said, though, the ADA was a product of the left.  *That* said, though, I’m sure there were many supporters of the ADA (myself among them) who never dreamed that some idiot would try to exploit it to change the rules of athletic competitions — much less that the courts would hear such a case — and least of all that the courts would sanction it! : From what I’ve seen, agreement/disagreement with this : decision does not fit neatly into any ‘box.’ My perspective meshes neatly with yours. : Although, I have notice nearly universal ennui from : the anarcho-syndicalists.   I think they’re busy selecting their executive officer of the week. cb

Response:

Bringing the  ADP into the Martin case is just another example of political correctness that the far left liberals are trying to bring into sports.Before long They will want Tiger to carry weights like they do horses.,just so he won’t make the other players feel bad about themselves.                                         Hank

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is mentioned, one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions.

I opposed the Supreme Court decision and I agree that in professional sports making accomodations for one player does not make sense.  At the Senior Tour they can use carts, but that means everybody, not just disabled golfers. However, Martin’s inability to walk means an inability to play by the terms and conditions put in place by the PGA Tour; walking is essential only because the PGA Tour defined it as such not because there is anything inherently essential to the game. I don’t agree at all with the attempt to twist the ADA to his advantage, but I can see where his lawyer is coming from.  But I have never understood the justification about how a cart merely "levels" the playing field for him, while other players’ disabilities don’t get the same kind of sympathy.

– CA Remove NoSpam to email me directly. Troll intolerant.  I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Please see RSG Usenet Ignore Penalty (UIP) concerning trolls: http://home.globalfrontiers.com/rorider/ "The four rules for success are: Work hard Be creative Never tell them everything you know."                I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

My perspective meshes neatly with yours.

Chris, I’ve been meaning to let you know that you have done a terrific job lately of typing out my thoughts. Thanks, you’ve saved me a lot of effort. Being told that you think like me is NOT generally regarded as a ‘good thing [TM].’ —       –dph       http://www.rec-sport-golf.com — RSG’s web complement

Response:

WHICH of course is precisely the issue. The deeper part of it is the right of men to congregate and do peaceful things based on their own parameters of rules, enjoyment, etc. The PGA tour is not a place of public accommodation but an athletic field. Does this permit someone in the stands to run out on the field and say "I want in! and you have to admit me.  Just because I am small, weak, untrained, incapable of playing to your standards, you STILL HAVE TO LET ME PLAY.  And since I DO have those disabilities, I need new rules…

Those freedoms are all but dead in this country.

Response:

Personally, I favored the supreme court decision. My uncle disagreed with me.  We were in his van and I was listening to him rant and rave about it.  Conversation ended when he legally parked into the handicap parking spot. -Greg — RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/schoenbergg.htm I do not feed trolls….see the RSG UIP http://home.globalfrontiers.com/rorider/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is mentioned, one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions. I don’t agree at all with the attempt to twist the ADA to his advantage, but I can see where his lawyer is coming from.  But I have never understood the justification about how a cart merely "levels" the playing field for him, while other players’ disabilities don’t get the same kind of sympathy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is mentioned, one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions. I don’t agree at all with the attempt to twist the ADA to his advantage, but I can see where his lawyer is coming from.  But I have never understood the justification about how a cart merely "levels" the playing field for him, while other players’ disabilities don’t get the same kind of sympathy.

WHICH of course is precisely the issue. The deeper part of it is the right of men to congregate and do peaceful things based on their own parameters of rules, enjoyment, etc. The PGA tour is not a place of public accommodation but an athletic field. Does this permit someone in the stands to run out on the field and say "I want in! and you have to admit me.  Just because I am small, weak, untrained, incapable of playing to your standards, you STILL HAVE TO LET ME PLAY.  And since I DO have those disabilities, I need new rules… Playground talk. GH

Response:

Well, this does in fact open the door for Verplank and any other guy who wants to pursue it. Law is 90% precedent. Its not going to take a rocket scientist of a lawyer to say "you made accomodation for Casey Martin, so make it for my client". The point is, it will have to be pursued by the person wanting the accomodation and not many of the pro’s want to be viewed/treated like Casey was. tom pat wrote….Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is

mentioned, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions. I don’t agree at all with the attempt to twist the ADA to his advantage, but I can see where his lawyer is coming from.  But I have never understood the justification about how a cart merely "levels" the playing field for him, while other players’ disabilities don’t get the same kind of sympathy.

Response:

Whenever Casey Martin comes up, and the advantage of a cart is mentioned, one of his supporters invariably will say, "the advantage of the cart does not overcome what he has to go through with his leg."  So in other words, the severity of his condition *is* a factor in their support. Now, for these purposes, I’ll throw out Fred Couples’ back problems, but why is Martin’s leg condition worse than Verplank’s diabetes, or Olazabal’s feet from a few years ago?  I mean, you don’t get to mark a 3.5 when your birdie putt on a par four hangs on the edge.  It’s either in or its out.  So why is one disability ok to have accommodations made for it, and not others?  Why does what Martin goes through make a cart ok, but not what Verplank, or another player goes through not make it ok? Is it because Martin can’t walk while some of the others don’t prevent walking?  I hope so, because then you admit walking is essential to PGA Tour competitions. I don’t agree at all with the attempt to twist the ADA to his advantage, but I can see where his lawyer is coming from.  But I have never understood the justification about how a cart merely "levels" the playing field for him, while other players’ disabilities don’t get the same kind of sympathy.

Response: