Diabetes Talking

Question:

well, Charles… let her actions speak for themselves doesn’t calling someone Natzi mean that the thread is dead according to ng convention??? — k t1 14 yr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you have amply proven my point. I’m glad I spent the time and money to give Collene a call.  She’s a neighbor over in Austin, TX, and has been a computer professional for 30 years — participated on the Internet when there were only professionals here. Collene is a Type 2 diabetic, having been diagnosed in the 1997-1998 timeframe.  She currently is on oral medications, and expressed the need to periodically check in to find out what is going on in the "diabetes world."   I told here she is always welcome here for just those purposes. In spite of what some may have thought from her previous postings, Collene is NOT a troll and NOT a spammer.  To the contrary, she is a very engaging, personable individual, who would be a credit to this or any newsgroup — if we don’t keep trying to run her away.  Goodness, people, there’s more than enough scum for us to become exorcised over — let’s leave the nice people alone and welcome them here. Charles Evans

Response:

Ah, but Coke is NOT patented, if it had been, the patent would have expired – it is a "trade secret" I can make Coke that has the SAME formula that real coke has – as long as I don’t STEAL the secret.  Of course, the odds on me STUMBLING onto it  by myself are pretty low – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ted said in this very newsgroup… ccc’d by email No Ratty, patents must contain that info  IN THE PUBLIC DOCUMENTATION. That’s the whole point of patents I can’t say as I know the answer, but it can NOT be secret.  If no one knows, I suggest asking the manufacturer. OR log on to the Patent office and look it up!! I would, but I’m lazy, and don’t remember my password or userid.  It is SOMEWHERE in the gray file cabinet to the left of my computer.  If I HAD to take the time to find it, I could, but I am not the one who cares, and I am going out to a friends house for some Klezmer music instead! Don’t blame you! The point I was making is that the chemical process has to be documented but the actual down’n'dirty manufacturing stuff will be secret. Such as how certain reactions are induced. After all Coke has to list its ingredients but not how they are put together in the plant. Ratty

Response:

I think you have amply proven my point. I’m glad I spent the time and money to give Collene a call.  She’s a neighbor over in Austin, TX, and has been a computer professional for 30 years — participated on the Internet when there were only professionals here.

A seasoned veteran should conduct him or herself as such.  Thus far, she has not conducted herself as a seasoned veteran, but as a clueless newbie.  Her oldest post was from 1997… not what would be considered the early days of the Internet.  Of course, most claims of "I was an Internet beta tester" are extremely exaggerated.  If you believe this luser is a 30 year computer professional, then I have a UNIVAC to sell you.  Maybe she was asleep for the first 26 years. BTW, you can take 2 seconds to search Google Groups for an e-mail address, and still have enough time left over to "have a life". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -[...]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cc’d by email I find the bulking MUCH better than anything else before One example.  In Maryland, DC, and parts of Pennsylvania, a common summer treat are "snowballs", with stalls all over the place.  They are cups of shaved ice with syrup. Before last year, "diet" snowballs were almost inedible.  The sweetness was there, but the syrup was so thin that it didn’t coat the ice.  As of last year, they two syrup manufacturers both switched to splendia. I used to have an occasional small regular flavor, now I can have regular diet flavors.  They arn’t QUITE as good, but pretty close. I agree with you there.  My daughter got a little Snoopy Snow Cone maker and we were topping them with Splenda sweetened syrups.  The neighbor and his son were over here eating them and they loved them.  These are people who won’t normally touch diet things at all.  We were comparing the different flavors to see which ones we liked the best.

Yup, sure ruined the prospects for my invention, diabetic sno-cones made with lo-cal ice. What’s worse, the makers of sucralose shut down my sweetened snowball booth at the county fair, calling my sign "Splendid Balls" a trademark infringement. Ya just can’t compete against these giant companies. m

Response:

I think you have amply proven my point.

I’m glad I spent the time and money to give Collene a call.  She’s a neighbor over in Austin, TX, and has been a computer professional for 30 years — participated on the Internet when there were only professionals here. Collene is a Type 2 diabetic, having been diagnosed in the 1997-1998 timeframe.  She currently is on oral medications, and expressed the need to periodically check in to find out what is going on in the "diabetes world."   I told here she is always welcome here for just those purposes. In spite of what some may have thought from her previous postings, Collene is NOT a troll and NOT a spammer.  To the contrary, she is a very engaging, personable individual, who would be a credit to this or any newsgroup — if we don’t keep trying to run her away.  Goodness, people, there’s more than enough scum for us to become exorcised over — let’s leave the nice people alone and welcome them here. Charles Evans

Response:

Collene Pearce said in this very newsgroup… I appreciate the good info. Now  –  does anyone know where I can find some info about the actual manufacturing process (in lay terms). I gather, from info you’ve supplied (chlorine atoms) that we’re talking about a chemical process, rather than genetically engineered sugarcane.  ;-) I’m curious to understand how it’s made, not just what it is.   I’m afraid I’m one of those people who likes to "understand" things.  ;-) A lot of things sound great until you learn how they are made.  ;-) acp

If that process was posted anywhere on the Net then the patent would be worth buttons. Manufacturing processes are closely guarded for obvious reasons. Ratty

Response:

people have memories, Collene…. especially of some of the nastier trolls don’t you have ANY recall of the answers you got last time??? interesting.. it WAS YOUR question — k t1 14 yr Well, nasty person, I’ll bet you looked up the old article, AFTER I called you on your troll post.

…

Response:

ccc’d by email No Ratty, patents must contain that info  IN THE PUBLIC DOCUMENTATION. That’s the whole point of patents I can’t say as I know the answer, but it can NOT be secret.  If no one knows, I suggest asking the manufacturer. OR log on to the Patent office and look it up!! I would, but I’m lazy, and don’t remember my password or userid.  It is SOMEWHERE in the gray file cabinet to the left of my computer.  If I HAD to take the time to find it, I could, but I am not the one who cares, and I am going out to a friends house for some Klezmer music instead! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Collene Pearce said in this very newsgroup… I appreciate the good info. Now  –  does anyone know where I can find some info about the actual manufacturing process (in lay terms). I gather, from info you’ve supplied (chlorine atoms) that we’re talking about a chemical process, rather than genetically engineered sugarcane.  ;-) I’m curious to understand how it’s made, not just what it is.   I’m afraid I’m one of those people who likes to "understand" things.  ;-) A lot of things sound great until you learn how they are made.  ;-) acp If that process was posted anywhere on the Net then the patent would be worth buttons. Manufacturing processes are closely guarded for obvious reasons. Ratty

Response:

Ted said in this very newsgroup… ccc’d by email No Ratty, patents must contain that info  IN THE PUBLIC DOCUMENTATION. That’s the whole point of patents I can’t say as I know the answer, but it can NOT be secret.  If no one knows, I suggest asking the manufacturer. OR log on to the Patent office and look it up!! I would, but I’m lazy, and don’t remember my password or userid.  It is SOMEWHERE in the gray file cabinet to the left of my computer.  If I HAD to take the time to find it, I could, but I am not the one who cares, and I am going out to a friends house for some Klezmer music instead!

Don’t blame you! The point I was making is that the chemical process has to be documented but the actual down’n'dirty manufacturing stuff will be secret. Such as how certain reactions are induced. After all Coke has to list its ingredients but not how they are put together in the plant. Ratty

Response:

Why do I smell Stevia troll?

I can think of only a few reasons: 1) you’re paranoid 2) you’re a mean tempered person who just        likes to pick fights 3) you are a stivia troll, who just wanted to        introduce the topic Whichever is the reason for your malodorous hallucination, "have a nice day". acp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

I appreciate the good info. Now  –  does anyone know where I can find some info about the actual manufacturing process (in lay terms). I gather, from info you’ve supplied (chlorine atoms) that we’re talking about a chemical process, rather than genetically engineered sugarcane.  ;-) I’m curious to understand how it’s made, not just what it is.   I’m afraid I’m one of those people who likes to "understand" things.  ;-) A lot of things sound great until you learn how they are made.  ;-) acp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

Well, Collene, perhaps it is because you made the following post in this very NG about 3 years ago:  Newsgroups: misc.health.diabetes Just what is Splenda??  Is it derived from Stevia?? Stevia is a natural herb, so I feel better about than something "aspartame like". acp and then returned to say:  Newsgroups: misc.health.diabetes Ouch!  This sounds as bad as aspartame. I use aspartame, but not in any great amount, so I doubt it will hurt me.  (Probably less than 10 packet equivalents a month.) So, what does sucralose turn into in your brain?  ;-) acp I guess you just forgot, eh? Jim — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do I smell Stevia troll? I can think of only a few reasons: 1) you’re paranoid 2) you’re a mean tempered person who just        likes to pick fights 3) you are a stivia troll, who just wanted to        introduce the topic Whichever is the reason for your malodorous hallucination, "have a nice day". acp Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

I think you have amply proven my point.

Response:

I appreciate the good info. Now  –  does anyone know where I can find some info about the actual manufacturing process (in lay terms). I gather, from info you’ve supplied (chlorine atoms) that we’re talking about a chemical process, rather than genetically engineered sugarcane.  ;-) I’m curious to understand how it’s made, not just what it is.   I’m afraid I’m one of those people who likes to "understand" things.  ;-) A lot of things sound great until you learn how they are made.  ;-)

Splenda is a trade name, not a product, and is trademarked, not patented. (Actually, there is a patent for "Splenda", but it ain’t the stuff ya put on yer cereal in the morning).  The name "Splenda" can be used by the trademark holders for any product which is lo-cal, a dietary aid, a sugar substitute, and a sweetener. Currently, the trademark holder uses the name "Splenda" for sucralose. Sucralose is 1,6-dichloro-1,6-dideoxy-.beta.-D-fructo-furanosyl-4-chloro- 4-deoxy-.alpha.-D-galactopyranoside or 4,1′, 6′-trichloro-4,1′, 6′-trideoxy-galacto- sucrose. For those that like shorthand, you can also express it as 1′,4,6′-trichloro- galactosucrose. Sucralose has the general formula C.sub.12 H.sub.19 Cl.sub.3 O.sub.8 (rather similar to stomach acid and charred steak) and a molecular weight of 397.64. Several processes for making sucralose from cane sugar are patented. References which will tell ya how to make sucralose in yer garage or basement include European Pat. Application 0 030804 to Tate et al. and U.S. Pat. No. 4,343,934 to Jenner et al. Patent searches are free, just go the the Patent Office web site and look it up. I live in SoFla and will be happy to ship you a bunch of sugar cane for a nominal fee. Remember, though, you can not sell the results under any name if you use a patented process to make it, and you can not use the name "Splenda" for a sweetener made by any process from any materials. You can build a golf cart and call it "Splenda". Coke (referred to in another post) does not have a patented formula. The Coke formula is a trade secret, which means only that any two-bit chemist can figure out how to make the stuff, but the masses will remain mystified. In fact, stuff that tastes exactly like Coke is available in bottles all over the world. Trademark law, however, prevents any of these products from calling itself "Coke" and Abu & Shamalla’s Really Good Cola Stuff just doesn’t have the advertising budget. OK? m

Response:

Changing subject to separate this garbage from the legitimate thread. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah, Jim… responded like a typical troll…… LOL — k t1 14 yr Why do I smell Stevia troll? I can think of only a few reasons: 1) you’re paranoid 2) you’re a mean tempered person who just        likes to pick fights 3) you are a stivia troll, who just wanted to        introduce the topic Whichever is the reason for your malodorous hallucination, "have a nice day". acp Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

cc’d by email I find the bulking MUCH better than anything else before One example.  In Maryland, DC, and parts of Pennsylvania, a common summer treat are "snowballs", with stalls all over the place.  They are cups of shaved ice with syrup. Before last year, "diet" snowballs were almost inedible.  The sweetness was there, but the syrup was so thin that it didn’t coat the ice.  As of last year, they two syrup manufacturers both switched to splendia. I used to have an occasional small regular flavor, now I can have regular diet flavors.  They arn’t QUITE as good, but pretty close.

I agree with you there.  My daughter got a little Snoopy Snow Cone maker and we were topping them with Splenda sweetened syrups.  The neighbor and his son were over here eating them and they loved them.  These are people who won’t normally touch diet things at all.  We were comparing the different flavors to see which ones we liked the best. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

Response:

yeah, Jim… responded like a typical troll…… LOL — k t1 14 yr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do I smell Stevia troll? I can think of only a few reasons: 1) you’re paranoid 2) you’re a mean tempered person who just        likes to pick fights 3) you are a stivia troll, who just wanted to        introduce the topic Whichever is the reason for your malodorous hallucination, "have a nice day". acp Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

Well, Collene, perhaps it is because you made the following post in this very NG about 3 years ago:

Oh.  I see.  It was item 2 on the list. You just wanted to pick a fight.   Well, as long as I have the time to waste, I’ll bite. Well, nasty person, I’ll bet you looked up the old article, AFTER I called you on your troll post. Or, perhaps you have the time to look up every author, as new articles are posted to this newsgroup??   Playing "Gestapo of the Newsgroup" all day, may be fun, but believe me, having a life is better.  ;-) The last time I looked, there was no law against requesting information you’ve never received before.   Actually, I don’t think there is a law against asking, if you HAVE received the info, before, either. I gave up on getting the info the info last time. That was ok — the product wasn’t on the grocery store shelves, anyway.  However, during a trip to the store for Nutra-Sweet, I found Splenda on the shelf and bought some, a couple of weeks ago.   NOW, I DO need the info.   I’ve been unsubbed from this newsgroup for quite a long time (months or more), but I figured this would be the most logical newsgroup to ask my question.  Perhaps I was mistaken.  ;-) I have forgotten why I unsubbed from the newsgroup. Perhaps you and people like you, are why. Well, I need to go do something productive now.   So, I guess you’ll just have to go harrass someone else.  Of course, you’ll be able to get one more attack in, if you’re the type of person, who would die if you didn’t get "the last word". acp Newsgroups: misc.health.diabetes

…snipping rest of old article…

Response:

Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Splenda is one of FOUR non-nutritive sweeteners approved by the FDA and recommended by the ADA — saccharin, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, and, now Splenda.    Before being allowed on the market, all underwent rigorous scrutiny and were shown to be safe when consumed by the public, including people with diabetes and during pregnancy.*   Splenda is manufactured and marketed by McNeil Specialty Company, a wholly owned subsidiary of the very respected Johnson and Johnson company. For the full story, you might want to look at www.splenda.com. Charles Evans * Excerpted from Evidence-Based Nutrition Principles and Recommendations for the Treatment and Prevention of Diabetes and Related Complications from the American Diabetes Association.

Response:

Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Not sure how helpful (informative) their web site is, but you might check their FAQ: http://www.splenda.com/ ~ Giselle EDD "Monkey" 02/16/02 Scheduled induction 02/07/02 "Never need a man to take care of you financially and you won’t owe him anything except love."

Response:

Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

The sucralose molecule is, AIUI, sucrose with a chlorine atom substituted for one of the hydrogens or hydroxyls on the glucose part, which prevents it from being digested.  Otherwise it retains most of the physical properties of sucrose, so for example it can be used in cooking.

Response:

Why do I smell Stevia troll? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know how Splenda is made? If it’s made from sugar (it says so on the package), then how did they get rid of the calories?  Is it from a genetically manipulated sugarcane? Is it chemically treated??   Or what?

Response:

The sucralose molecule is, AIUI, sucrose with a chlorine atom substituted for one of the hydrogens or hydroxyls on the glucose part, which prevents it from being digested.  Otherwise it retains most of the physical properties of sucrose, so for example it can be used in cooking.

Correct on the chemical alterations (well nearly, I think it’s 3 chlorines not one, but near enough). However, the main point about splenda is that it is 600 times sweeter than sugar. This means two things. First, it actually *doesn’t* retain the physical properties of sucrose per amount of sweetness – so although (unlike ) it does not break down and lose its sweetness with heating, it does not produce the bulking properties of sugar in recipes so it cannot be used in cooking as an identical substitute for sugar. You’ll find that the packets are bulked out with maltodextrin or some alternative carbohydrate bulking agent to make it measurable. Second, it’s not the fact that it’s a sugar that can’t be digested that is useful in reducing the calories/carbs. Unfortunately, a sugar of equal sweetness to sucrose that could not be digested would produce a profound osmotic diarrhea to anyone ingesting anything but small amounts (far worse than the laxative effect of sorbitol etc. as that’s still mostly absorbed). Again, it is the fact that only small amounts are required that makes it a useful sweetener. Personally, I was a little bit disappointed with sucralose/Splenda. Don’t believe that rumors that it has no aftertaste (well at least that *no-one* perceives it to have a strong aftertaste because I taste one). I actually prefer the aftertaste of . Ally

Response:

cc’d by email I find the bulking MUCH better than anything else before One example.  In Maryland, DC, and parts of Pennsylvania, a common summer treat are "snowballs", with stalls all over the place.  They are cups of shaved ice with syrup. Before last year, "diet" snowballs were almost inedible.  The sweetness was there, but the syrup was so thin that it didn’t coat the ice.  As of last year, they two syrup manufacturers both switched to splendia. I used to have an occasional small regular flavor, now I can have regular diet flavors.  They arn’t QUITE as good, but pretty close. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The sucralose molecule is, AIUI, sucrose with a chlorine atom substituted for one of the hydrogens or hydroxyls on the glucose part, which prevents it from being digested.  Otherwise it retains most of the physical properties of sucrose, so for example it can be used in cooking. Correct on the chemical alterations (well nearly, I think it’s 3 chlorines not one, but near enough). However, the main point about splenda is that it is 600 times sweeter than sugar. This means two things. First, it actually *doesn’t* retain the physical properties of sucrose per amount of sweetness – so although (unlike ) it does not break down and lose its sweetness with heating, it does not produce the bulking properties of sugar in recipes so it cannot be used in cooking as an identical substitute for sugar. You’ll find that the packets are bulked out with maltodextrin or some alternative carbohydrate bulking agent to make it measurable. Second, it’s not the fact that it’s a sugar that can’t be digested that is useful in reducing the calories/carbs. Unfortunately, a sugar of equal sweetness to sucrose that could not be digested would produce a profound osmotic diarrhea to anyone ingesting anything but small amounts (far worse than the laxative effect of sorbitol etc. as that’s still mostly absorbed). Again, it is the fact that only small amounts are required that makes it a useful sweetener. Personally, I was a little bit disappointed with sucralose/Splenda. Don’t believe that rumors that it has no aftertaste (well at least that *no-one* perceives it to have a strong aftertaste because I taste one). I actually prefer the aftertaste of . Ally

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