Diabetes Talking » Diabetes Type

Dark chocolate

admin — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

As you may know, DARK chocolate is an excellent anti-oxidant. I find the best source is ordinary unsweetened Baker’s chocolate. I melt a block in the microwave and add just enough sugar to make a bitter-sweet chocolate. It tastes great. I also add some chopped walnuts to the mix. —MIKE— In the White Mountains of New Hampshire

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The more water I drink the thirstier I feel.

admin — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Is this the normal physiological response? Or is this an indicator/symptom of type 2 diabetes? I have been making a conscious effort to increase my water intake. We all know about the 8 glasses of water a day suggestion. I drink a water bottle, 20 oz in 30 minutes. I have another 20 oz before the hour is up. This is in an office setting so I am not doing anything but sitting and working at a computer terminal, i.e.., no physical exertion. I start this cycle were I use the restroom and drink more water. But I find the more water I drink the thirstier I feel. This does not happen if I drink a caffeine based drink or soda, it only happens with plain water. It’s not intuitive to me why I am thirstier the more water I drink. It was explained to me that excessive thirst and frequent urination can be a sign of type 2 diabetes. The thirst response is because of the increased blood sugar levels. The cells are trying to dilute the blood sugars and they dehydrate promoting the feeling of thirst. It’s simple osmosis. Water is moving from inside the cells to the bloodstream. I’ve been to the doctor regularly and had my blood tests. They didn’t say anything about any high blood sugar levels in my visit. Could the thirst response from increased water consumption be due to cells flushing pollutants and requiring/requesting more water? Is the way it is supposed to work? I’ve read responses from many on the web that have noticed the same effect from water consumption. But I haven’t been able to identify any reliable sources on this subject.

Response:

Is this the normal physiological response? Or is this an indicator/symptom of type 2 diabetes? … I start this cycle were I use the restroom and drink more water. But I find the more water I drink the thirstier I feel.

It’s quite common so calling it normal makes some sort of sense. Not to worry, it does not go on forever until you drink so much you explode. At some point folks stop getting more thristy. This does not happen if I drink a caffeine based drink or soda, it only happens with plain water. It’s not intuitive to me why I am thirstier the more water I drink.

Not intuitive, agreed. Yet it happens to enough people that it makes sense to call it normal. Could the thirst response from increased water consumption be due to cells flushing pollutants and requiring/requesting more water? Is the way it is supposed to work? I’ve read responses from many on the web that have noticed the same effect from water consumption. But I haven’t been able to identify any reliable sources on this subject.

Check. It’s common but no one has a really sound explanation of why. The flush theory sounds great but it lacks a good experimental or theoretical basis.

Response:

Is this the normal physiological response? Or is this an indicator/symptom of type 2 diabetes?

Sodium deficiency can account for your symptoms.

Response:

Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity

admin — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

To a larger degree than I’d hope for, many things just seem to depend on whatever it is that you believe. Roberts published in Behaviorial and Brain Sciences, 2004 27:2 pp254-257 how drinking unflavored fructose solution led to sustained weight loss in individuals. He now has some people who have replicated his experiment and seen the same results. You can find his stuff with a web search. (It is a MUCH longer paper, I only mentioned the three pages that had his fructose result mentioned) The paper also cites other authors where rodents consuming fructose led to weight loss. It appears that he is now thinking that strong flavors we like when coupled with calories lead to weight gain. That is probably what we have experienced for a million years. And what he thinks he has stumbled onto is that if you take away all the flavor then you can somehow confuse the weight gain machinery. The experiment seems easy to do. The only question I had after reading the paper was whether he had used refrigerated or room temperature. If I can find that out I might try it just to see what happens.

Response:

Interestingly, this article just refers to "fructose" making it sound like the sugar in apples is going to make you fat (although I’m sure it can), but another article I read about the same study makes it clear that they’re talking about high fructose corn syrup. As far as I’m concerned, that stuff is just obesity in a bottle. Martha

Response:

Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity Jul 29 2005 FRIDAY, July 29 (HealthDay News) — Another study finds that high consumption of soft drinks and other sweetened beverages contributes to obesity. But this study, conducted in mice, suggests that one form of natural sweetener — fructose — may be especially likely to encourage weight gain. In the study, researchers at the University of Cincinnati allowed mice to freely consume either plain water or fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks. The mice that drank the fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks gained weight, even though they took in fewer calories from solid food. By the end of the study, the mice that consumed fructose-sweetened beverages had 90 percent more body fat than the mice that consumed water only. The findings suggest that the total amount of calories consumed when someone includes fructose in their diets may not be the only cause of weight gain. Consuming fructose may actually affect metabolism in a way that leads to more fat storage, at least in mice, the researchers said. "Our study shows how fat mass increases as a direct consequence of soft drink consumption," study author Dr. Matthias Tschop, associate professor in the University of Cincinnati’s psychiatry department and a member of the Obesity Research Center at the university’s Genome Research Institute, said in a prepared statement. "We were surprised to see that mice actually ate less when exposed to fructose-sweetened beverages, and therefore didn’t consume more overall calories. Nevertheless, they gained significantly more body fat within a few weeks," Tschop said. The study appears in the July issue of the journal Obesity Research.

Response:

Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity Jul 29 2005

Duh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FRIDAY, July 29 (HealthDay News) — Another study finds that high consumption of soft drinks and other sweetened beverages contributes to obesity. But this study, conducted in mice, suggests that one form of natural sweetener — fructose — may be especially likely to encourage weight gain. In the study, researchers at the University of Cincinnati allowed mice to freely consume either plain water or fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks. The mice that drank the fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks gained weight, even though they took in fewer calories from solid food. By the end of the study, the mice that consumed fructose-sweetened beverages had 90 percent more body fat than the mice that consumed water only. The findings suggest that the total amount of calories consumed when someone includes fructose in their diets may not be the only cause of weight gain. Consuming fructose may actually affect metabolism in a way that leads to more fat storage, at least in mice, the researchers said. "Our study shows how fat mass increases as a direct consequence of soft drink consumption," study author Dr. Matthias Tschop, associate professor in the University of Cincinnati’s psychiatry department and a member of the Obesity Research Center at the university’s Genome Research Institute, said in a prepared statement. "We were surprised to see that mice actually ate less when exposed to fructose-sweetened beverages, and therefore didn’t consume more overall calories. Nevertheless, they gained significantly more body fat within a few weeks," Tschop said. The study appears in the July issue of the journal Obesity Research.

Response:

I ‘ve been saying for years that high frustose corn syrup has led to our obesity problems. The stuff is in everything. Once, i looked at the ingredients on a package of sushi. Even it had hfcs. If I read correctly, it was added to our food supply during the Nixon administration to keep the cost of food cheap. That timeline, 30 years, would coincide with the the obesity epidemic. I really think the stuff is dangerous.

It may have led to your obesity. It didn’t lead to mine – we don’t use the stuff. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity FRIDAY, July 29 (HealthDay News) — Another study finds that high consumption of soft drinks and other sweetened beverages contributes to obesity. But this study, conducted in mice, suggests that one form of natural sweetener — fructose — may be especially likely to encourage weight gain. In the study, researchers at the University of Cincinnati allowed mice to freely consume either plain water or fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks. The mice that drank the fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks gained weight, even though they took in fewer calories from solid food.

I don’t see any claim that the mice getting the fructose did not take in more calories once you count the fructose. By the end of the study, the mice that consumed fructose-sweetened beverages had 90 percent more body fat than the mice that consumed water only. The findings suggest that the total amount of calories consumed when someone includes fructose in their diets may not be the only cause of weight gain. Consuming fructose may actually affect metabolism in a way that leads to more fat storage, at least in mice, the researchers said.

I don’t see any mention of fructose being compared to other sugars such as sucrose, so I don’t see how this study indicates fructose being worse than any other sugar. Also, with no claim that the mice getting the fructose did not take in more calories once you count all the fructose in their liquid intake, I don’t see how the weight gain is disproven to be from calories alone. Possible alternative conclusions given the data mentioned in the posting by "Lewis": Consuming more calories makes one gain weight, and drinking only sugary liquids and no unsugared water regardless of sugar type increases calorie consumption bigtime and could reduce appetite for actual food to partially offset the calories in the sugary liquids. I did just look at the label on a 20 ounce bottle of sugary fruit-flavor soda, and it came to 300 calories ("servings" per container 2.5, calories per serving 120) – about 15% of a typical 2,000 calorie "quota" for someone getting no extra exercise to not gain weight. The 20 ounce bottle has been the usual de-facto single-serving container of soda for the past few years. From the early or mid 1970’s to the late 1990’s, the usual de-facto single serving bottle of soda was 16 ounces. Back in the 1960’s or 1950’s or so, soda bottles were even smaller. There is also the 12 oz can – at 120 calories per 8 ounces, a can of the sugary stuff would be 180 calories. I had some other bottles of different sizes of different sugary fruit flavored sodas as well as root beer – 6 out of 7 came to 120-125 calories per 8 ounces, and one came to 110. I did just look at a different bottle, of sugary cola: 100 calories per 8 ounces. Fortunately I ride bicycles about 200-250 miles a week!

Response:

The problem is that the article was written by an amateur journalist and definitely not someone concerned about accuracy. Withthe language and statements he makes you can’t be certain WHAT the study says happened–which probably means the author couldn’t understand it himself and just regurgitated the few pieces he thought he understood, or was told it said. The article says they stored more body fat, but honestly, it leaves room for the fructose mice to have LOST weight. It just never says that fact. Like another poster said, they consumed less calories in solid food ONLY. But counting all the calories in the fructose they could have tripled caloric intake–they just don’t say. If they forced mice to consume sugar to prevent thrist, well then they likely would gain weight, duh. As aNother poster said, the same results probably would happen with glucose. They are artifically preventing the mice from drinking water. They will still crave food because there are other nutrients they need beside fructose. ANd the article NEVER says they feed them high-fructose corn syrup. Everyone is just assuming that because they already believe it. They only mention fructose, the stuff that is naturally in fruits. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may have led to your obesity. It didn’t lead to mine – we don’t use the stuff. So says my husband who also is from Austrailia. He always points out how sweets from Austrailia taste sooooo much better because they are real and not the cheap stuff you get here. The point I think many missed from the OP’s article is that the comparitive mice did not necessarily gain more *weight* than the other mice, they ended up with more stored BODYFAT. This then suggests that the fructose somehow changed the mices metabolism (ability to absorb or use calories as fuel) as they two groups ate about the same amount each day. I thought it was a very interesting article which just might in years to come change the beverage industry just as the the flood of info on transfats is currently slowly changing the processed food industry. joanne

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email) 350/282/225 month-start: 281 monthly-goal: 0 since: 12/01/2004 Atkins since Jan 12, 2004 In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

Response:

The story is a bit more complicated than that. I don’t know the whole timeline or all of the factors, but some bits and pieces are outlined below: 1. Food Manufacturers used to use "high glucose" corn syrup as a cheap sweetener. It was added to many foods. It was essentially all glucose or a mixture of glucose and polymers of glucose which the body converted to glucose. 2. The enzyme, Glucose Isomerase, became available. It would convert "high glucose" corn syrup to a product which contained 42% Fructose and the remainder glucose and polymers of glucose. 3. Fructose tastes sweeter than glucose. The 42% fructose corn syrup product tastes better than the high glucose product and is nearly as cheap. 4. A process was developed which allowed an economical conversion of the 42% product to a 55% Fructose Product, i.e. the first "High Fructose Corn Syrup" I don’t know when this happened but the process became much cheaper and more efficient in the 1980’s. 5. High Fructose Corn Syrup "tastes better" than "low fructose" corn syrup. (Some folks also think the 55% product tastes sweeter than an equal amount of standard table sugar. On a sweetness basis, wholesale HFCS is cheaper than wholesale table sugar in the U.S.) 6. The original HFCS had about 55% Fructose, 45% Glucose. It is a current item of commerce 7. Some premium HFCS has about 65% Fructose, 35% Glucose 8. Surprise. . .standard table sugar is converted to 50% glucose, 50% fructose in our bodies. Therefore, HFCS puts more fructose into our bodies than standard table sugar but it is not a massive amount more. One example: A bottle of U.S. sugared soft drink often contains 28 grams of HFCS and supplies 15.4 gram of fructose. Standard sugar is expensive in the U.S. so the HFCS flavored soft drink is cheaper to make. In Europe and much of the rest of the world, sugar is cheaper than HFCS so that same bottle would often contain about 28 grams of standard table sugar and supply 14.0 gram of fructose to the consumer. . . .unless the manufacturer added more than 28 grams of standard table sugar in order to bring the taste of sweetness up to the HFCS level. If the manufacturer needed 29 or 30 grams of standard table sugar to make the product taste as sweet as the HFCS version, the standard table sugar-sweetened bottle would supply 14.5 to 15 gram of fructose or almost the same as the HFCS-sweetened bottle. 9. IOW, the real problem is "Too much sweetener added to too many foods because it makes them taste better and thus are more likely to be purchased" In the U.S., that sweetener is HFCS, in the rest of the world, that sweetener is more likely to be table sugar. BTW: I think the real danger from HFCS and table sugar is the effect the fructose has on cholesterol. It favors the production of triglycerides which end up doing all sorts of damage. It is particularly life-threatening to diabetics, including diabetics-to-be who don’t know that they are in the Standard Type 2 Diabetes Progression. Regards Old Al

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may have led to your obesity. It didn’t lead to mine – we don’t use the stuff.- So says my husband who also is from Austrailia. He always points out how sweets from Austrailia taste sooooo much better because they are real and not the cheap stuff you get here. The point I think many missed from the OP’s article is that the comparitive mice did not necessarily gain more *weight* than the other mice, they ended up with more stored BODYFAT. This then suggests that the fructose somehow changed the mices metabolism (ability to absorb or use calories as fuel) as they two groups ate about the same amount each day. I thought it was a very interesting article which just might in years to come change the beverage industry just as the the flood of info on transfats is currently slowly changing the processed food industry. joanne

If you should bite into something sweet – spit it out immediately – it is not going to be good for you. www.antiagingatlanta.com — rvsmithmd

Response:

Well that theory might work well for you but where I live we don’t use the stuff. There is a whole big world outside the US you know. Obesity is caused by excess calories. And we have similar levels of obesity here. What leads to obesity is the hand that shovels the food in the mouth. The extra calories have more to do with the girth spread than what the ingredients are.

Response:

It may have led to your obesity. It didn’t lead to mine – we don’t use the stuff.

So says my husband who also is from Austrailia. He always points out how sweets from Austrailia taste sooooo much better because they are real and not the cheap stuff you get here. The point I think many missed from the OP’s article is that the comparitive mice did not necessarily gain more *weight* than the other mice, they ended up with more stored BODYFAT. This then suggests that the fructose somehow changed the mices metabolism (ability to absorb or use calories as fuel) as they two groups ate about the same amount each day. I thought it was a very interesting article which just might in years to come change the beverage industry just as the the flood of info on transfats is currently slowly changing the processed food industry. joanne

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as possible. If any fall off, they [land with] the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood. You want to be careful following a gravel truck, also. … or meeting a tractor trailer carrying steel pipes going towards you and spilling pipes almost at your car. Happened to a lesbian friend of mine once. I’m curious as to what her sexual orientation had to do with it… Was she on her way to a potluck? ;-)

Do you mean that straight people don’t do potlucks? Then that means that my children’s friends’ parents… and all those teachers… AND THE MINISTER HIMSELF? Oh my god… — Cheers, Bev ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo "Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims." –Thomas Sowell

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lesbian

This was an unnecessary adjective.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as possible. If any fall off, they the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood. You want to be careful following a gravel truck, also. … or meeting a tractor trailer carrying steel pipes going towards you and spilling pipes almost at your car. Happened to a lesbian friend of mine once.

I’m curious as to what her sexual orientation had to do with it… Was she on her way to a potluck? ;-) Priscilla

Response:

|||| |||| (**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm |||| truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as |||| possible. If any fall off, ||| they |||| the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood. ||| ||| ||| You want to be careful following a gravel truck, also. ||| || || … or meeting a tractor trailer carrying steel pipes going || towards || you and spilling pipes almost at your car. Happened to a || lesbian || friend of mine once. || Probably a homophobic truck… BJ — — "Never underestimate the power of a moron with a conspiracy theory." — Unknown

Response:

(**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as possible. If any fall off, they the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood.

You want to be careful following a gravel truck, also. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Response:

. . .(snip). . . It gets even murkier, involving world trade subsidies and barriers, support for US corn producers, sanctions against Cuba and so on. There is a lot of politics behind the US use of HFCS. We rarely see HFCS here, except in imported products. We see the history from a different viewpoint out here; I live in the heart of a sugar-cane producing area. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.

I live in the heart of a sugar-beet producing area**. I know some of the farmers. Basically, trying to grow sugar this far North is a stupid business but for the import quotas on cane sugar. They’re not doing all that well even with the quotas. (**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as possible. If any fall off, they the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood. Regards Old Al

Response:

The main reason reason is to protect the US Beet Sugar industry (which has been around for a long time), the price of sucrose in the USA is a multiple of the world price. That doesn’t have much to with the price of sugar in the rest of the world, or the fact that Cuba makes a lot of Cane Sugar. It has to do with the fact that Sugar beets can never produce sucrose at a price that it is at all competitive with Sugar Cane, and the US has a very large domestic Beet Sugar industry, and like much of US Agricultural has been extensively protected for a very long time. As a result HFCS is very attractive in the USA, but relatively unattractive in the rest of the world. It does cause some interesting things to happen. Pepsi and Coca Cola actually taste different outside the USA . When I was growing up in the 1950’s, one of my neighbors was a lobbyist for the Dominican Republic. He was paid for every ton he was able to get the import quota for the Dominican Republic Raised (and that was years before Castro came to power). It made him enough money to buy a rather nice home. When he died in the mid 1990’s, it had an assessed valuation of a mere $1.4 million – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We see the history from a different viewpoint out here; I live in the heart of a sugar-cane producing area. The growth of HFCS use in the late twentieth century in the USA and the parallel restrictions and depression of the world cane-sugar market had significant economic implications here and in some Pacific economies such as Fiji. Some more recent implications are discussed here: http://www.card.iastate.edu/iowa_ag_review/spring_04/article2.aspx On obesity, HFCS has had little effect in the rest of the world. However, our importation of some lifestyle changes and global fast-food chains has. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.

Response:

It gets even murkier, involving world trade subsidies and barriers, support for US corn producers, sanctions against Cuba and so on. There is a lot of politics behind the US use of HFCS. We rarely see HFCS here, except in imported products. We see the history from a different viewpoint out here; I live in the heart of a sugar-cane producing area. The growth of HFCS use in the late twentieth century in the USA and the parallel restrictions and depression of the world cane-sugar market had significant economic implications here and in some Pacific economies such as Fiji. Some more recent implications are discussed here: http://www.card.iastate.edu/iowa_ag_review/spring_04/article2.aspx On obesity, HFCS has had little effect in the rest of the world. However, our importation of some lifestyle changes and global fast-food chains has. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (**Around here, one learns not to drive behind a farm truck containing sugar-beets. They pile them as high as possible. If any fall off, they [land with] the same impact potential as a 2 kg piece of wood. You want to be careful following a gravel truck, also. … or meeting a tractor trailer carrying steel pipes going towards you and spilling pipes almost at your car. Happened to a lesbian friend of mine once. I’m curious as to what her sexual orientation had to do with it… Was she on her way to a potluck? ;-) Do you mean that straight people don’t do potlucks? Then that means that my children’s friends’ parents… and all those teachers… AND THE MINISTER HIMSELF? Oh my god…

Yes, maybe your god, too! ;-) Ain’t stereotypes grand? Priscilla

Response:

Geez, my whole family is gay, how did we ever manage to produce so many children! | | Not particularly, but I had never heard of potlucks being an | indicator of | homosexuality.

Response:

I used to buy the boxes of fructose for sweetening, since I thought a sweetener that was like the sugar in fruits must be a better choice. Oops

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity Jul 29 2005 FRIDAY, July 29 (HealthDay News) — Another study finds that high consumption of soft drinks and other sweetened beverages contributes to obesity. But this study, conducted in mice, suggests that one form of natural sweetener — fructose — may be especially likely to encourage weight gain. In the study, researchers at the University of Cincinnati allowed mice to freely consume either plain water or fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks. The mice that drank the fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks gained weight, even though they took in fewer calories from solid food. By the end of the study, the mice that consumed fructose-sweetened beverages had 90 percent more body fat than the mice that consumed water only. The findings suggest that the total amount of calories consumed when someone includes fructose in their diets may not be the only cause of weight gain. Consuming fructose may actually affect metabolism in a way that leads to more fat storage, at least in mice, the researchers said. "Our study shows how fat mass increases as a direct consequence of soft drink consumption," study author Dr. Matthias Tschop, associate professor in the University of Cincinnati’s psychiatry department and a member of the Obesity Research Center at the university’s Genome Research Institute, said in a prepared statement. "We were surprised to see that mice actually ate less when exposed to fructose-sweetened beverages, and therefore didn’t consume more overall calories. Nevertheless, they gained significantly more body fat within a few weeks," Tschop said. The study appears in the July issue of the journal Obesity Research.

Response:

Not particularly, but I had never heard of potlucks being an indicator of homosexuality. — Cheers, Bev Sign on restroom hand-dryer: "Push button for a message from your congressman."

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"Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims." –Thomas Sowell Nice. I like his columns. Marsha/Ohio

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Tactfulness, thy name is Mom (not)

admin — Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I totally understand what you’re going through I’m almost 27, and my mother went back to school and became a personal trainer. Talk about ick….. So I’m ALWAYS hearing it. According to her I’m about twenty pounds overweight and at a high risk for Type two Diabetes. According to my physician, yes I could lose a little weight, but other than that I’m healthy, including my blood sugar. He told me, "What do I have to do to convince you that you don’t have Diabetes?" I said, "It’s not me that needs the convincing." I tell my mother this and she says that my doctor isn’t reading the latest research. She’s always on me about my weight, and it really ticks me off. I’ve worked very hard my entire life; done through countless psychologists and anti-depressents; to feel better about myself. I’m going to school and working hard to make a career. I have a nice apartment and two best friends and three furry owners. I’m living reasonably okay for a girl of my age and I feel happy just to be alive. I’m reasonably happy with myself and I like having that feeling. But just as I do, she goes and pulls me right back down. It’s always something with my mom and dad. It’s not my weight, it’s money, since they have been supporting me since I went to college at 18. I go to school and work, but I don’t have enough to support myself so they help out with a monthly allowance. And if it’s not that, it’s my career as a technician. Where am I going to work after graduation? How much will it pay? "You need to have a set plan when you graduate this time so you don’t repeat what you did at UCLA" After graduating from UCLA with a bachelor’s in theater, I was sending out my headshots looking for an agent, and trying to work temp jobs and stuff. I ran out of money, and yes I know I gained weight and developed a slight drinking problem so I decided to go back to school. I know they don’t want me to repeat the same mistake, and I certainly dont either. Like I said, I had a slight drinking problem, and though it’s not completely fixed, it’s a LOT better than it used to be. To me that says something. To me, any progress is better than none. So when my mother calls me up and says, "I noticed you’re checking account was low so I looked at it and those trips to the liquor store are going to have to stop" WTF????? She doesn’t know the first about my problems, mainly because I refuse to tell her cause I’m sick and tired of her criticisms. And besides, she is one of the reasons why I drink in the first place. My parents have given me a lot. They support me financially every month and I appreciate and hate it very much. But it will be a while before I can support myself so I can’t do anything. I was going to do springboard diving training this summer with an NCAA coach but I can’t because I can’t afford it and I’m not going to ask my parents for money. This is why I don’t talk to my mother that often. This is why I don’t fly home and visit often. And this is why I don’t plan to have kids. I worry a lot just like my mother, and I know if I have kids I will worry all the time, but I’m sure as hell not going to put my kid through what my parents have put me through. And I know it is emotionally painful for them to have to deal with me, and I’m not going to go through that either. "We’re not going to be here forever. The bank’s not going to give you any money, and your brother and sister aren’t going to loan you any either." Yeah, like i really would stoop so low as to ask my siblings for money. But they are my parents, and my mother will always be my mother. I just wish I can have a conversation with her without always resisting the urge to strangle her. Okay, enough rambling… Hugs to everyone who has mother and parental issue Kristi

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I’m five feet tall exactly and I’m supposed to be closer to 100-110 pounds…. A load of BS if you ask me My mom once said I should be a size 4. She hasn’t said it since, but i’ve never forgiven her for saying that. Kristi

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Unless you are 2 ft 6 ins high, she has got it well wrong Cheers, helen s

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AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! That’s horrible! Would she rather have an anorexic daughter who dies of a heart attack before age 30, or a fine healthy daughter who’ll be there to take care of her in her old age!!!???? I *HATE* this "image is everything" society we’re living in! People need to learn what’s important in life and stop judging people by what’s on the outside instead of what’s on the inside. I still say, it’s the size of a person’s heart that matters, not the size of their hips!!!! Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kristi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom doesn’t do this to the extent Monique describes, but sometimes she gets on a tangent and won’t let up. I remember once when my folks were in town we went out to dinner. I’m a natural blonde but my eyebrows have always been darker than my hair. I also don’t pluck them into non-existence like some women do, I just keep them trimmed in their natural line along the brow. That particular evening I used a clear NO COLOUR eyebrow gel when I put on my makeup. Mom kept staring at me and asking why my eyebrows were so dark. I told her I’d used the gel stuff. Still she stared. "But I don’t remember them being so dark." "Well, it makes them look a little darker, I guess, but you know they’ve always been dark, Mom." A few minutes later, "I just can’t get over how dark your eyebrows are!" You get the drift? Apparently the topic for dinner conversation was going to be my eyebrows, come hell or high water! Jill

You sound like part of my family. I have several cousins with naturally blonde hair and dark eyebrows. I’ve always thought it was an unusual and attractive combination. Jo

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Hey, I am a size 4, size 2 sometimes depending on the manufacturer. But I am far rom anorexic. I eat my fair share. Just have small bones. All my life I’ve never been in a normal weight according to the chart. As a kid, I was teased about how skiny I am. Only found out recently my classmates nicknamed me sticks. My doc is not concerned, even told me to watch my sugar intake as I have a family history of diabetes. And I am way past my 30s. I am counting the years before I can collect a pension as I don’t have a job. Winnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m five feet tall exactly and I’m supposed to be closer to 100-110 pounds…. A load of BS if you ask me My mom once said I should be a size 4. She hasn’t said it since, but i’ve never forgiven her for saying that. AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! That’s horrible! Would she rather have an anorexic daughter who dies of a heart attack before age 30, or a fine healthy daughter who’ll be there to take care of her in her old age!!!???? I *HATE* this "image is everything" society we’re living in! People need to learn what’s important in life and stop judging people by what’s on the outside instead of what’s on the inside. I still say, it’s the size of a person’s heart that matters, not the size of their hips!!!! Hugs, CatNipped Kristi

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I have an idea that USA sizes are not the same as UK ones. What would be the bust/waist/hip size for a USA size 4? I think the shoe sizes are different too. Tweed

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Oh Winnie, I didn’t mean that everyone who is a size 4 is anorexic (in fact my daughter is a size *negative* one and is far from anorexic). What I meant is that if you’re not *meant* to be a size 4 but that’s your "ideal" and you starve yourself to get there, then *that’s* a problem that can lead to serious medical risks. Being health has nothing to do with the numbers on clothes or scales – either small or large, it has *everything* to do with eating healthy and exercising appropriately. Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m five feet tall exactly and I’m supposed to be closer to 100-110 pounds…. A load of BS if you ask me My mom once said I should be a size 4. She hasn’t said it since, but i’ve never forgiven her for saying that. AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! That’s horrible! Would she rather have an anorexic daughter who dies of a heart attack before age 30, or a fine healthy daughter who’ll be there to take care of her in her old age!!!???? I *HATE* this "image is everything" society we’re living in! People need to learn what’s important in life and stop judging people by what’s on the outside instead of what’s on the inside. I still say, it’s the size of a person’s heart that matters, not the size of their hips!!!! Hugs, CatNipped Kristi

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Asians have a greater chance of diabetes, cause it runs in my family too. So I’ve got that against me and i’m "overweight" so as my mom put it I have a "50 percent chance of making it to age 60" or something like that.. hmph Hell, i’ll be happy if I can just make it to 30. Sure I want to lose weight, but I also want to finish school. I want to train and be on the diving team next year and do well. I want to fix my financial situation and learn a lot more at work. I’ve got a ton of things I want to do, and losing a lot of weight just isn’t that important to me right this moment. All my friends say I look fine and I feel fine. I’m happy to be alive and have the things that I have, and to me that’s enough. All I need to do now is get financially independent and fine a nice man, and I’ll be happy. Kristi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom doesn’t do this to the extent Monique describes, but sometimes she gets on a tangent and won’t let up. I remember once when my folks were in town we went out to dinner. I’m a natural blonde but my eyebrows have always been darker than my hair. I also don’t pluck them into non-existence like some women do, I just keep them trimmed in their natural line along the brow. That particular evening I used a clear NO COLOUR eyebrow gel when I put on my makeup. Mom kept staring at me and asking why my eyebrows were so dark. I told her I’d used the gel stuff. Still she stared. "But I don’t remember them being so dark." "Well, it makes them look a little darker, I guess, but you know they’ve always been dark, Mom." A few minutes later, "I just can’t get over how dark your eyebrows are!" You get the drift? Apparently the topic for dinner conversation was going to be my eyebrows, come hell or high water! Jill You sound like part of my family. I have several cousins with naturally blonde hair and dark eyebrows. I’ve always thought it was an unusual and attractive combination. Jo

You can sort of see what I mean here, although my hair in this photo is looking more reddish than blonde! Also no makeup but then I rarely wear it when we’re working the shows out in the heat… melts right off your face. http://community.webshots.com/photo/203065637/379447333ryOWhN Jill

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m five feet tall exactly and I’m supposed to be closer to 100-110 pounds…. A load of BS if you ask me My mom once said I should be a size 4. She hasn’t said it since, but i’ve never forgiven her for saying that. Kristi Unless you are 2 ft 6 ins high, she has got it well wrong Cheers, helen s I have an idea that USA sizes are not the same as UK ones. What would be the bust/waist/hip size for a USA size 4? I think the shoe sizes are different too. Tweed

I can fit in some 3/4s, but sometimes have to get a 5/6. Bust – 34 inches (86.36 cm), waist – 23 inches (58.42 cm), hips – 34 inches (86.36 cm). [In figure measurements I prefer inches... 34-23-34 sounds much better than 86.36-58.42-86.36!! ;] I have humongous clown feet (even though I’m only 5′5") and have to get a size 8W – my feet are 10 inches long and 4 inches wide. Hugs, CatNipped

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Beautiful, Jill – I wish I were that photogenic! John’s one lucky guy. Hugs, CatNipped

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On 2005-06-26, Mischief penned: Sure I want to lose weight, but I also want to finish school. I want to train and be on the diving team next year and do well. I want to fix my financial situation and learn a lot more at work. I’ve got a ton of things I want to do, and losing a lot of weight just isn’t that important to me right this moment.

See, this is my problem. I’m into lots of strenuous exercise, and it’s awfully difficult to lose fat when you’re also trying to at least stay even on your athletic performance. If you eat less, you have less fuel for the workout. I do want to lose weight, but not if it means feeling like I’m dying every time I go for a ride. — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. Oh, don’t let it bug you. Mine was the same way. Unfortunately, I lost her at 19. Maybe your mom thinks it’s her job to tell you. I remember once wearing a new outfit I thought I just looked like the cat’s pajamas in, and my mom’s remark was, "Aren’t you getting a little hippy?" (hippy in those days meaning, a big butt) Now there’s nobody to tell me when I look hippy Sherry

My mom doesn’t do this to the extent Monique describes, but sometimes she gets on a tangent and won’t let up. I remember once when my folks were in town we went out to dinner. I’m a natural blonde but my eyebrows have always been darker than my hair. I also don’t pluck them into non-existence like some women do, I just keep them trimmed in their natural line along the brow. That particular evening I used a clear NO COLOUR eyebrow gel when I put on my makeup. Mom kept staring at me and asking why my eyebrows were so dark. I told her I’d used the gel stuff. Still she stared. "But I don’t remember them being so dark." "Well, it makes them look a little darker, I guess, but you know they’ve always been dark, Mom." A few minutes later, "I just can’t get over how dark your eyebrows are!" You get the drift? Apparently the topic for dinner conversation was going to be my eyebrows, come hell or high water! Jill

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. Oh, don’t let it bug you. Mine was the same way. Unfortunately, I lost her at 19. Maybe your mom thinks it’s her job to tell you. I remember once wearing a new outfit I thought I just looked like the cat’s pajamas in, and my mom’s remark was, "Aren’t you getting a little hippy?" (hippy in those days meaning, a big butt) Now there’s nobody to tell me when I look hippy Sherry You look hippy. Gracie a mother is a mother is a mother

LOL! Don’t forget to add "…in that outfit". It’s the mom’s way of making the criticism sound like it’s not really the daughter’s fault… except it is because she chose the outfit!

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Wow..talk about Brit forthrightness, LOL! Nonetheless, I’m sure you eventually forgave her, but that didn’t help the hurt, did it? My Mom was overweight, and she died in ‘69 (the day they held "Woodstock Festival" in NY). The only reason she didn’t say stuff like that was that I was skinny up till about 20 years later…..But Moms got other ways to push our buttons, don’t they? Sincere wishes for you feeling much better every day forward.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. She doesn’t just pull this stunt with me … while we were staying with my aunt, a woman that my mother adores and who has had several unsuccessful marriages, my mom somehow went off on a tangent (unrelated to my aunt) about how you wouldn’t want to be a woman who’s been married several times … when all of us immediately tried to shut her up, she kept trying to "explain," making it worse every time. While we were visiting some of my aunt’s friends, one was talking about a horrible flight back from Germany in which, among other things, she was served no food. Mom instantly insisted that "You’re lying. Lufthansa always serves great meals, and you can ask anyone." And then proceeded to defend that thesis vehemently while the rest of us turned pale and tried to shut her up. There’s a quote I found … I honestly don’t know where it comes from (anyone know?) … but I wish I could somehow make Mom’s words pass through this filter before they came out her mouth: "The Sufis advise us to speak only after our words have managed to pass through three gates. At the first gate, we ask ouselves, ‘Are these words true?’ If so, we let them pass on; if not, back they go. At the second gate, we ask, ‘Are they necessary?’ At the last gate, we ask, ‘Are they kind?’" -Eknath Easwaran — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Ah Monique how I wish I had heard that quote many years ago. I, like you, love my mom, but oh the connection between her brain and her mouth is like a slide with no buffers or stops. My family and I were approaching the gathering where there was in progress the celebration of my dear Grandfather 93rd birthday. Mother had arrived before we had. I was walking up to join the family. I take after her in that I am stocky, that day I was wearing a dark purple dress with rick rack trim. She stated loudly as we approached the group, "Charleen, you look like a purple dirigible." I was truly tested that day!! I know how you felt. Love and understanding is our armour. Charleen

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This is somewhat my mom. I have the solace in as much as my mom goes on and on about weight, she fights that battle (much better than I do, BTW, and with more steadfastness) herself. I know she only wants me to be the best I can be. My siblings take this all much worse than I do and become defensive instead of agreeing and going past the subject. I mean, just say "Uh-huh, mom" and then try to change the subject. We aren’t going to change them, and in the end, they don’t say these things to hurt but in their mind they are offering advice. That it comes out wrong is something we can’t change. For my mom, it is just something that she always *wished* she could do, and wished her mom had cared enough to say to her (never mind that had she done that, my mom would have been like us and somewhat offended, but her mom just plain didn’t care much about her period, so any attention would have been good.) We can’t change them, so we might as well accept them and steer the conversation as best we can away from certain subjects.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. Oh, don’t let it bug you. Mine was the same way. Unfortunately, I lost her at 19. Maybe your mom thinks it’s her job to tell you. I remember once wearing a new outfit I thought I just looked like the cat’s pajamas in, and my mom’s remark was, "Aren’t you getting a little hippy?" (hippy in those days meaning, a big butt) Now there’s nobody to tell me when I look hippy Sherry

You look hippy. Gracie a mother is a mother is a mother

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Monique, I have had to deal with this all my life with my mother — it never seems to get through their "well-meaning" (mine always says she "means well" as if that excuses all tactless comments) heads that it is unkind. I used to be so hurt about it because my mother always ragged on my curly hair and how it "used" to look good when I was younger (and put my hair up in orange juice cans to straighten it). I never did anything to her satisfaction in my house either. I finally learned to let it go because at 84 years old she ain’t gonna change. I also have taken personal vows never to do this to my daughter!!!! Christine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. She doesn’t just pull this stunt with me … while we were staying with my aunt, a woman that my mother adores and who has had several unsuccessful marriages, my mom somehow went off on a tangent (unrelated to my aunt) about how you wouldn’t want to be a woman who’s been married several times … when all of us immediately tried to shut her up, she kept trying to "explain," making it worse every time. While we were visiting some of my aunt’s friends, one was talking about a horrible flight back from Germany in which, among other things, she was served no food. Mom instantly insisted that "You’re lying. Lufthansa always serves great meals, and you can ask anyone." And then proceeded to defend that thesis vehemently while the rest of us turned pale and tried to shut her up. There’s a quote I found … I honestly don’t know where it comes from (anyone know?) … but I wish I could somehow make Mom’s words pass through this filter before they came out her mouth: "The Sufis advise us to speak only after our words have managed to pass through three gates. At the first gate, we ask ouselves, ‘Are these words true?’ If so, we let them pass on; if not, back they go. At the second gate, we ask, ‘Are they necessary?’ At the last gate, we ask, ‘Are they kind?’" -Eknath Easwaran — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. Your mother is my mother… and you can keep her I swear this – they are one and the same woman – they speak in indentical terms! So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Count yourself lucky. Whilst in my mid-twenties, and *slim* I was wearing a short dress. My mother told me not to wear it as… wait for it… remember I’m in my twenties at the time… I was "no spring chicken anymore." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. They do hurt. They *know* it hurts. Sadly. It’s something some mothers do. On the plus side, my mother having the tact & diplomacy section of her brain being the size of a gnat’s testicle, made me acutely aware of just how damaging thoughtless remarks from a parent to a child can be – as a result, she did me a favour, I really make a concerted effort *not* to be like that with Nathan Cheers, helen s

Yep, me too. I made a concious effort to tell my children, at least once a day, how smart and beautiful they were. Even now I tell my daughter what a good mother she is, how gorgeous she is, how smart she is (she’s going for a B.S. in nursing and she’s acing all her courses!) And I tell my son what a good, strong, caring husband and father he is and how brilliant he is (he is *amazingly* creative). I wish people would realize that if they want to change a person for the better then they should quit criticizing and start complimenting. The more you compliment a person, they harder they will try to live up to your good opinion in order to not only get more praise, but to feel they deserve the praise they’re getting. It really works! My children grew up for the first, critical, years of their lives with an abusive alcoholic for a father, yet they remain untraumatized and unaffected by that – they are strong and healthy (mentally and physically) adults who are rearing wonderful, healthy children of their own!!!!! Hugs, CatNipped

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. She doesn’t just pull this stunt with me … while we were staying with my aunt, a woman that my mother adores and who has had several unsuccessful marriages, my mom somehow went off on a tangent (unrelated to my aunt) about how you wouldn’t want to be a woman who’s been married several times … when all of us immediately tried to shut her up, she kept trying to "explain," making it worse every time. While we were visiting some of my aunt’s friends, one was talking about a horrible flight back from Germany in which, among other things, she was served no food. Mom instantly insisted that "You’re lying. Lufthansa always serves great meals, and you can ask anyone." And then proceeded to defend that thesis vehemently while the rest of us turned pale and tried to shut her up. There’s a quote I found … I honestly don’t know where it comes from (anyone know?) … but I wish I could somehow make Mom’s words pass through this filter before they came out her mouth: "The Sufis advise us to speak only after our words have managed to pass through three gates. At the first gate, we ask ouselves, ‘Are these words true?’ If so, we let them pass on; if not, back they go. At the second gate, we ask, ‘Are they necessary?’ At the last gate, we ask, ‘Are they kind?’" -Eknath Easwaran — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Ah Monique how I wish I had heard that quote many years ago. I, like you, love my mom, but oh the connection between her brain and her mouth is like a slide with no buffers or stops. My family and I were approaching the gathering where there was in progress the celebration of my dear Grandfather 93rd birthday. Mother had arrived before we had. I was walking up to join the family. I take after her in that I am stocky, that day I was wearing a dark purple dress with rick rack trim. She stated loudly as we approached the group, "Charleen, you look like a purple dirigible." I was truly tested that day!! I know how you felt. Love and understanding is our armour. Charleen

Response:

Oh, don’t let it bug you. Mine was the same way. Unfortunately, I lost her at 19. Maybe your mom thinks it’s her job to tell you. I remember once wearing a new outfit I thought I just looked like the cat’s pajamas in, and my mom’s remark was, "Aren’t you getting a little hippy?" (hippy in those days meaning, a big butt) Now there’s nobody to tell me when I look hippy Sherry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. She doesn’t just pull this stunt with me … while we were staying with my aunt, a woman that my mother adores and who has had several unsuccessful marriages, my mom somehow went off on a tangent (unrelated to my aunt) about how you wouldn’t want to be a woman who’s been married several times … when all of us immediately tried to shut her up, she kept trying to "explain," making it worse every time. While we were visiting some of my aunt’s friends, one was talking about a horrible flight back from Germany in which, among other things, she was served no food. Mom instantly insisted that "You’re lying. Lufthansa always serves great meals, and you can ask anyone." And then proceeded to defend that thesis vehemently while the rest of us turned pale and tried to shut her up. There’s a quote I found … I honestly don’t know where it comes from (anyone know?) … but I wish I could somehow make Mom’s words pass through this filter before they came out her mouth: "The Sufis advise us to speak only after our words have managed to pass through three gates. At the first gate, we ask ouselves, ‘Are these words true?’ If so, we let them pass on; if not, back they go. At the second gate, we ask, ‘Are they necessary?’ At the last gate, we ask, ‘Are they kind?’" -Eknath Easwaran

Re Weight: I know exactly what you mean. I think this may be the only society in the history of the world that’s producing perfectly healthy young women who are deliberately starving themselves *TO DEATH* because they’ve been brainwashed that "thin is beautiful". Nevermind that as large a percentage of people are born to be ectomorphs as are born to be endomorphs – your genetics will determine that and there’s nothing you can safely do that will change it. Never mind that as long as you’re healthy it shouldn’t matter what the numbers on the scale say. I wish "Twiggy" had never been born!!!! When a gorgeous woman like Marilyn Monroe would now be considered fat – well our standards are warped! Had you lived in the time of Botticelli you would have probably been considered way to skinny!!! Re Moms that drive you crazy: I know exactly what you mean!!! I spent a large portion of my live trying (and failing) to get my mother’s approval and love – and though I love her dearly, I finally had to learn how to become my own nurturer because I was *never* going to get it from her! Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Response:

Let me preface this by saying that I love my mother. She is a good person, she’s kind-hearted, and she doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. It’s just that she seems to have no filter between her brain and her mouth. So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now." Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt. She doesn’t just pull this stunt with me … while we were staying with my aunt, a woman that my mother adores and who has had several unsuccessful marriages, my mom somehow went off on a tangent (unrelated to my aunt) about how you wouldn’t want to be a woman who’s been married several times … when all of us immediately tried to shut her up, she kept trying to "explain," making it worse every time. While we were visiting some of my aunt’s friends, one was talking about a horrible flight back from Germany in which, among other things, she was served no food. Mom instantly insisted that "You’re lying. Lufthansa always serves great meals, and you can ask anyone." And then proceeded to defend that thesis vehemently while the rest of us turned pale and tried to shut her up. There’s a quote I found … I honestly don’t know where it comes from (anyone know?) … but I wish I could somehow make Mom’s words pass through this filter before they came out her mouth: "The Sufis advise us to speak only after our words have managed to pass through three gates. At the first gate, we ask ouselves, ‘Are these words true?’ If so, we let them pass on; if not, back they go. At the second gate, we ask, ‘Are they necessary?’ At the last gate, we ask, ‘Are they kind?’" -Eknath Easwaran — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Response:

Your mother is my mother… and you can keep her I swear this – they are one and the same woman – they speak in indentical terms! So yesterday, I’m on the phone with my parents. I tell them I was going to get a few pairs of shorts appropriate for work. "Well, you shouldn’t wear shorts to work. It looks bad." "I know the shorts I have aren’t appropriate for work. That’s why I’m going to get a few nicer, longer pairs. Lots of people wear shorts at this company." "Well, good, because you look awful in those short shorts you have now."

Count yourself lucky. Whilst in my mid-twenties, and *slim* I was wearing a short dress. My mother told me not to wear it as… wait for it… remember I’m in my twenties at the time… I was "no spring chicken anymore." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s review. I tell my mom I’m planning to buy longer shorts for work, and she tells me that my current shorts look awful (because, you see, I’m heinously fat, at least according to my mom. Nevermind that I mountain bike for miles at altitude in the mountains, that I practice martial arts and go hiking with my friends … that’s not important. What’s important is the number on my pants, and clearly the way to get me a smaller number is to lambast me about how I look like crap at every opportunity). You know, I really try to have a good body image … DH loves my body. Sure, I’d like to shed a few pounds, but then, so would the vast majority of Americans. I’d rather be overweight and active than thin and inactive, that’s for damn sure. I don’t know how to make it so that comments like this don’t hurt.

They do hurt. They *know* it hurts. Sadly. It’s something some mothers do. On the plus side, my mother having the tact & diplomacy section of her brain being the size of a gnat’s testicle, made me acutely aware of just how damaging thoughtless remarks from a parent to a child can be – as a result, she did me a favour, I really make a concerted effort *not* to be like that with Nathan Cheers, helen s

Response:

New food pyramid coming

admin — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in (…) … and Dr. Chung’s office… and in the homes of more than 625,550 people who have had more than 5 years experience with the 2PD-OMER Approach… With this much experience, I am surprised you haven’t published your diet yet. The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet. Is it the recent addition of the supposed 32-oz omer that changed it? No. It never fit the definition of diet from the outset. I showed your own words describing it as a diet.

In truth, referencing something is not the same as describing it. That’s good enough for rational people.

By your own measure, therefore, you are not rational, dear Don: (1) You have read my description of the salvation that the Lord has offered to you and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. (2) You have read my description of the more than 5 year experiences of more than 625,550 people concerning the 2PD-OMER Approach and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. [Begin] Here is the proof.

Yes, you show and I affirm that I have referenced the 2PD Approach as the two pound diet (shortened for the 2 Pound Diet Approach). However, in truth, the 2PD Approach was never a diet from the outset. So far hundreds have informed me that they are finding success with the two pound diet. None report failure and none report nutritional deficiencies. [End] It was not yet hundreds of thousands of satisfied users, I presume. Actually, it was but I was not prepared to publicly write that there were that many. Actually the incredible numbers are quite recent; there would have been no reason for you not to publish them earlier if they existed.

The Lord has His reasons. It remains my choice to obey Him. In fact it appears you have published the numbers often in the recent past though they remain incredible.

"Truth is beyond belief for the untruthful." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But the change from "diet" to "approach" must not have depended on the omer, since the omer was still missing in February, 2004: [Begin] This discussion(s) is related to the 2 pound diet approach (2PD) which is described completely at . . . . [End] That arouses my curiosity; how could those 625,550 people have been on the 2PD-omer diet for five years when the omer stipulation was just added recently, perhaps earlier this year? Renaming the 2PD Approach to the 2PD-OMER Approach did not change the method. The first Google hit on that key is February 13, 2005. Were the subjects on a different diet, or does the addition of "omer" make absolutely no difference except some supposed religious support for the diet and its author? So your answer is that adding "omer" to the name made absolutely no difference

Glorifying God makes a difference. The addition of OMER to the name is to acknowledge that the source of the Original Method of Eating Reduction comes from God. Except for some supposed religious support for the diet and its author.

The 2PD-OMER Approach and its author are to God’s credit. The glory is all His. And how many were in your control group? You will have to wait for the details like everyone else. Sorry. I don’t expect them in the lifetimes of anyone in this newsgroup.

"All **will** be revealed to those who choose to spend eternity with the Lord." http://makeashorterlink.com/?D3DE219AA About the truth: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2264129A The way to the truth is straight and narrow: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2642108A You will remain in my prayers, dear Don, whom I love, in Lord Christ’s holy name. May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom. Here’s how: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2 arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the 2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His presence known here on Usenet Indeed, it is truly the Messiah Who has vanquished you, dear Don. "Men (and women) can’t win arguments… The truth **wins** arguments." Thankfully, Lord Jesus Christ is the way, **the truth**, and the life. Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16 oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what "omer" literally means in Hebrew. Enter the 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" metabolic syndrome (MetS) thereby bringing this thread back on topic in these medical newsgroups http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2A821CEA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Response:

Jeff says: << Actually, I haven’t read your description of your diet. I are waiting for it to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. So far, the closest he’s come to that was talking about it at a ladies

… and before the Governor of the State of Georgia: http://www.heartmdphd.com/press.asp … and before the Premier Women’s Heart Health Conference held in Atlanta: http://www.acius.net Truth is simple: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2264129A The way to the truth is straight and narrow: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2642108A You will remain in my prayers, dear neighbor, whom I love, in Lord Christ’s holy name. May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom. Here’s how: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2 arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the 2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His presence known here on Usenet Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16 oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what "omer" literally means in Hebrew. Enter the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" type 2 diabetes thereby bringing this thread back on topic http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2A821CEA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (…) By your own measure, therefore, you are not rational, dear Don: (1) You have read my description of the salvation that the Lord has offered to you and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. Perhaps he thinks that the Lord’s salvation is not an appropriate topic for a newsgroup dealing with cardiology, science and medicine. Escaping our mortality is actually an appropriate topic for cardiology, science and medicine.

Unless you can provide a testible hypothesis, it is not a proper topic for cardiology, medicine or science. Read Gould’s book, "Rock of Ages." (2) You have read my description of the more than 5 year experiences of more than 625,550 people concerning the 2PD-OMER Approach and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. Actually, I haven’t read your description of your diet. The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet. I are waiting for it to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. Your choice. The Lord has given you free will per our earlier discussions.

And it is your free choice not to publish your "research". Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://makeashorterlink.com/?D3DE219AA About the truth: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2264129A The way to the truth is straight and narrow: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2642108A You will remain in my prayers, dear Jeff, whom I love, in Lord Christ’s holy name. May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom. Here’s how: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2 arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the 2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His presence known here on Usenet Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16 oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what "omer" literally means in Hebrew. Enter the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" type 2 diabetes thereby bringing this thread back on topic http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2A821CEA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Response:

(…) By your own measure, therefore, you are not rational, dear Don: (1) You have read my description of the salvation that the Lord has offered to you and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. Perhaps he thinks that the Lord’s salvation is not an appropriate topic for a newsgroup dealing with cardiology, science and medicine.

Escaping our mortality is actually an appropriate topic for cardiology, science and medicine. (2) You have read my description of the more than 5 year experiences of more than 625,550 people concerning the 2PD-OMER Approach and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. Actually, I haven’t read your description of your diet.

The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet. I are waiting for it to be published in a peer-reviewed journal.

Your choice. The Lord has given you free will per our earlier discussions. http://makeashorterlink.com/?D3DE219AA About the truth: http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2264129A The way to the truth is straight and narrow: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2642108A You will remain in my prayers, dear Jeff, whom I love, in Lord Christ’s holy name. May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom. Here’s how: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2 arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the 2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His presence known here on Usenet Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16 oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what "omer" literally means in Hebrew. Enter the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" type 2 diabetes thereby bringing this thread back on topic http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2A821CEA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Response:

Perhaps he thinks that the Lord’s salvation is not an appropriate topic for a newsgroup dealing with cardiology, science and medicine. (2) You have read my description of the more than 5 year experiences of more than 625,550 people concerning the 2PD-OMER Approach and yet this has not been "good enough" for you.

Actually, I haven’t read your description of your diet. I are waiting for it to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. Jeff

Response:

and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: Jeff says: << Actually, I haven’t read your description of your diet. I are waiting for it to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. So far, the closest he’s come to that was talking about it at a ladies

But that was admitted to after the fact so as to prevent anyone from contacting them directly and forwarding them copies of chung’s usenet trolling.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (…) By your own measure, therefore, you are not rational, dear Don: (1) You have read my description of the salvation that the Lord has offered to you and yet this has not been "good enough" for you. Perhaps he thinks that the Lord’s salvation is not an appropriate topic for a newsgroup dealing with cardiology, science and medicine. Escaping our mortality is actually an appropriate topic for cardiology, science and medicine. Unless you can provide a testible hypothesis, it is not a proper topic for cardiology, medicine or science.

That would be your opinion. Thankfully, it is God who is in charge here and not you. At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2A821CEA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Response:

lowering of metabolism after weight loss

admin — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well…it’s not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires consuming a few less calories per day than one burns. And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes. Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile – it’s not physically possible. Rubish. It’s just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait, that’s for weight. But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories than they burn each day. And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of plenty without exercise- there’s no way for you to know. All evidence is going the other way. Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay in a coffin for days. It’s possible. Can the other 99.999956% of humanity? Unlikely.

So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and surgery? A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you can’t…you are correct." GG

Response:

Well…it’s not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires consuming a few less calories per day than one burns. And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes. Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile – it’s not physically possible.

Rubish. It’s just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait, that’s for weight. But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories than they burn each day.

And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of plenty without exercise- there’s no way for you to know. All evidence is going the other way. Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay in a coffin for days. It’s possible. Can the other 99.999956% of humanity? Unlikely.

Response:

The rate of obesity is skyrocketing…are you saying that’s due to genetics? Why were so few people obese 50 years ago?

We are genetically programmed to eat like crazy because that’s what is required to survive. Eating is an organisms number one job, even before reproduction, and we have lot of overlapping mechanisms to keep us eating and few to stop eating. The reason you want to eat is genetic. In the past food was not highly available so this made a lot of sense. In a scarce food environment you need a strong drive to eat. Otherwise would you eat? Not really. No more than you take out the garbage regularly. What stops you from eating? Very little and for good reason. Can you imagine having a fresh kill and saying no thanks, i’ll wait a week for the next one? Can you imagine have a big haunch of deer and saying i don’t feel like finishing it when you know your next meal could be in another 3 days? It’s not really rational to expect our biology to work in a world of plenty when it was "designed" for a world of scarcity. We also have no instinct to exercise. It’s the reverse because it not exercising wasn’t an option. Hunter-gathers walked something like 6-12 miles a day. What we wanted to do was conserve energy. So when we don’t have to do anything we don’t. Now add in that 100 calories extra a day is 10 extra pounds a year. Over 10 years that’s 100 pounds. So it takes very little extra for us to become obese. 50 years ago we simply didn’t have the availability of high caloric density food and we didn’t have a drive everywhere do nothing culture. McDonalds had a goal of making a store available to everyone in the world in under 5 minutes. That’s very different than a few generations ago. I remember my grandma’s stories about the depression. Fast food has for the first time made highly caloric fatty and sugary food availble to the masses at and affordable price. These ingredients activate our reward systems just like heroine does. Not to the same extent, but it’s really the first food that has had the same effect. Why does the body make this food addictive? So you’ll eat it! Fat is calories. Those calories are what allowed us to develop bigger brains. Sugar is fruit which is vitamins. That’s how the body gets you to do what it wants. Just like it uses leptin and ghrelin and a zillion other chemicals to control your hunger. Now can you exercise? Yes. Can you stop from eating? Yes. Can you hold your arms up for half hour? Yes. Can you hold your breath until you pass out? Yes. Can you control your heart rate? Yes. But realize how much we are going against the tide here. And depending on your genetics it can be a lot harder than for others.

Response:

Well…it’s not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires consuming a few less calories per day than one burns. And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes.

Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile – it’s not physically possible. But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories than they burn each day. It can be challenging, because of they availability of food, and the way it is consumed recreationally and socially. Is it easy to lose weight? No. Is it possible? Yes. As with many other things in life, anything that requires patience and persistence will tend to have a low rate of success. It’s just a lot easier for most people to reach for the bag of snacks and the remote control, rather than get up off the couch and go for a walk. But, that’s more an issue of personal priorities than metabolism. Why is it easier? You don’t forget to breath. You don’t over drink water. Why do you want to eat the snacks and use the remote control? It could be different, but it’s not. The influences are so built-in we don’t even recognize they are at play.

I didn’t say it was easy…but, it’s not as impossible as you make it sound. One does have to become "aware", and make more intelligent choices with respect to food choices and portions, and exercise. But, plenty of people manage to do this. GG

Response:

When you say ‘obesity is said to be related to genetics’, what does it mean? Is it the tendency to overeat? the bigger apetite? the taste for high calorie food? or do obese people really have a slower metabolism? or better absorption?

It can be lots of things. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-01/slu-jtt011905.php http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/two-thirds-of-a-persons-… http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1497/ http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/lower_metabolism_and_les… http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60D12FE3B550C738EDDAA… http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-02/ru-ona020303.php http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0210.mencimer.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar02sep-13.pdf http://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/obesity/section1.htm * http://www.the-scientist.com/2002/04/29/22/1 Genes Do Play a Role in Obesity For some people, overeating is not the only culprit By Myrna E. Watanabe Sedentary people who enjoy high-caloric diets

OT Exercise key to longevity for type 2 diabetics

admin — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

|| Mar 29 (Reuters Health) – Staying active at work and during leisure || time may help reduce the risk of death from cardiovascular disease || or any other cause for men and women with type 2 diabetes, according || to the findings of an international study. || || http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?r… Another "DUH!" article! Staying active may help reduce the risk of death from cardiovascular disease for anyone, not just diabetics. — Peter Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Response:

Mar 29 (Reuters Health) – Staying active at work and during leisure time may help reduce the risk of death from cardiovascular disease or any other cause for men and women with type 2 diabetes, according to the findings of an international study. http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?r…

Response:

Jenny you rock and diabetes stuff

admin — Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Took this clip from an article from a link from one of Jenny’s posts *snip* Mitochondrial Dysfunction is Found in Lean Relatives of People with Type 2 Diabetes Why this might be was made clear by a landmark 2004 study which looked at the cells of the "healthy, young, lean" but insulin-resistant relatives of people with type 2 diabetes and found that their mitochondria, the "power plant of the cells" that is the part of the cell that burns glucose, appeared to have a defect. While the mitochondria of people with no relatives with diabetes burned glucose well, the mitochondria of the people with an inherited genetic predisposition to diabetes were not able to burn off glucose as efficiently, but instead caused the glucose they could not burn and to be stored in the cells as fat.(5) *unsnip* Earlier in the month I watched these *very* cool videos on demand from Stein Institute for Research on Aging at University of California San Diego SIRA: Is Aging Caused by a Decline in our Cell’s Powerhouse? (Mitochondria) Main page at: http://www.ucsd.tv/library-health.asp?series=show&seriesID=SIRA_Sam_a… Its about half way down…. I also highly recommend: SIRA: Delaying Aging & Optimizing Health with Supplements & Diet (near the top) All I have to say is Wow, things I didn’t know and there are some scary smart people out there… Jenny, you rock! I always find interesting things from you. Anyway, I wanted to share these video sources with you all, they are very good. (you need real player though, yuck) By the way, the professor in the Mitochondria video mentions combining two items together (watch the vid), I found the website for it at: http://www.juvenon.com/ All this was a wondering if these things would lower your risk or help a person with diabetes? I’m 290 now and vision has started to get blurry, I’m 43, wondered if i’m headed down that pathway. ~JD

Response:

Quit looking for excuses and start eating less. Getting off your fat behind and exercising would help too. — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took this clip from an article from a link from one of Jenny’s posts *snip* Mitochondrial Dysfunction is Found in Lean Relatives of People with Type 2 Diabetes Why this might be was made clear by a landmark 2004 study which looked at the cells of the "healthy, young, lean" but insulin-resistant relatives of people with type 2 diabetes and found that their mitochondria, the "power plant of the cells" that is the part of the cell that burns glucose, appeared to have a defect. While the mitochondria of people with no relatives with diabetes burned glucose well, the mitochondria of the people with an inherited genetic predisposition to diabetes were not able to burn off glucose as efficiently, but instead caused the glucose they could not burn and to be stored in the cells as fat.(5) *unsnip* Earlier in the month I watched these *very* cool videos on demand from Stein Institute for Research on Aging at University of California San Diego SIRA: Is Aging Caused by a Decline in our Cell’s Powerhouse? (Mitochondria) Main page at: http://www.ucsd.tv/library-health.asp?series=show&seriesID=SIRA_Sam_a… Its about half way down…. I also highly recommend: SIRA: Delaying Aging & Optimizing Health with Supplements & Diet (near the top) All I have to say is Wow, things I didn’t know and there are some scary smart people out there… Jenny, you rock! I always find interesting things from you. Anyway, I wanted to share these video sources with you all, they are very good. (you need real player though, yuck) By the way, the professor in the Mitochondria video mentions combining two items together (watch the vid), I found the website for it at: http://www.juvenon.com/ All this was a wondering if these things would lower your risk or help a person with diabetes? I’m 290 now and vision has started to get blurry, I’m 43, wondered if i’m headed down that pathway. ~JD

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am curious, what do you think about my chances. Dad is diabetic, mom is prediabetic. Any estimated number? FWIW, I also think that my chances of getting diabetes are high, and, also, so does an endocrinologist whom I saw last fall. There are some papers on it, but I can’t find any links. I remember reading that my kids have a 15% chance of inheriting it from me alone; my husband looks clear. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

It was on Fox news tonight that studies had concluded that a waistline measurement was directly related to the chance of suffering type 2 diabetes. The studies seemed focused on men, but I don’t know if it would be that much different for women. It concluded that the more girth a person had, the more likely they would be to suffer diabetes. Regardless of other health factors.

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*huh* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quit looking for excuses and start eating less. Getting off your fat behind and exercising would help too.

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:: All this was a wondering if these things would lower your risk or :: help a person with diabetes? :: :: I’m 290 now and vision has started to get blurry, I’m 43, wondered if :: i’m headed down that pathway. Any diabetics in your family? If so, your chances are exceptional that you’d develop type 2 diabetes. If not, you can still have many other problems. Now is the time to act.

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:: I am curious, what do you think about my chances. Dad is diabetic, :: mom is prediabetic. Any estimated number? FWIW, I also think that my :: chances of getting diabetes are high, and, also, so does an :: endocrinologist whom I saw last fall. :: :: i I come from a family with lots of type 2diabetics, on both sides. My uncle, on my mom’s side, has always been very fit, trim and muscular. He has lifted weights his entire life, though I’ve not heard much about him doing any cardio. His job is very physical, though, as he is a carpenter. At 67, he became diabetic. However, he didn’t follow any form of a LC diet, always eating plenty of carbs in meals, but not overeating. So, I’d guess that if you remained normal weight and ate a typical diet, you’d probably become diabetic later in life (it is not a death sentence, BTW). However, if you continue to eat a diet that is controlled in terms of carb intake, plus remain normal weight and exercise, you might avoid it or delay the onset, since your pancreas won’t have to deal with extra load of too many carbs. Of course, it is a YMMV kind of thing. I do think that type 2 diabetics is very dependent on how one eats and exercises. As such, it may be avoidable though it might require effort to avoid it (look at the increasing numbers of children who become diabetic now). Being ‘typical’ in terms of habits regarding eating and exercise is probably a guarantee of becoming diabetic for those who have a history.

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I am curious, what do you think about my chances. Dad is diabetic, mom is prediabetic. Any estimated number? FWIW, I also think that my chances of getting diabetes are high, and, also, so does an endocrinologist whom I saw last fall.

There are some papers on it, but I can’t find any links. I remember reading that my kids have a 15% chance of inheriting it from me alone; my husband looks clear. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

Info which may be useful to some

admin — Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I had been having real success with the CPAP machine, all was going really well with it. But about 5 months ago, I began getting the same old tired feeling, until recently I was, again, almost but not quite falling asleep whgilst driving. Needless to say I was quite miffed. I have lost a bit of weight and if anything thought I should need less pressure, not more. Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It seems I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel just as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea. So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood sugars checked. Just in case.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kyte wrote: > I had been having real success with the CPAP machine, all was going > really well with it. But about 5 months ago, I began getting the same > old tired feeling, until recently I was, again, almost but not quite > falling asleep whgilst driving. Needless to say I was quite miffed. I > have lost a bit of weight and if anything thought I should need less > pressure, not more. > Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the > sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It seems > I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel just > as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea. > So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt > working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood sugars > checked. Just in case.

Interesting. I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes long before my OSA was diagnosed. I managed to get my blood glucose levels unger good control but I still was feeling tired and falling asleep during the day. After getting on CPAP my blood glucose levels dropped considerably and for a while I didn’t need meds. Unfortunately, diabetes is one of those diseases that will inevitably get worse. I still have good control but I am now taking Actos. Bill Sullivan "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny." — Lazarus Long

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Kyle wrote. "kyte" wrote in message

news:d057gp$ifg$1@domitilla.aioe.org… > I had been having real success with the CPAP machine, all was going > really well with it. But about 5 months ago, I began getting the same > old tired feeling, until recently I was, again, almost but not quite > falling asleep whgilst driving. Needless to say I was quite miffed. I > have lost a bit of weight and if anything thought I should need less > pressure, not more. > Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the > sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It seems > I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel just > as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea. > So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt > working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood sugars > checked. Just in case.

Kyle: If you have lost a lot of weight I,e 30 - 40 lbs. Your pressure is probably wrong. You may need a new sleep study or a pressure change. As a preliminary test to a new sleep study borrow or rent a auto cpap, The machine uses an algorithm to adjust your pressure. It will give you information on what pressure may be appropriate, Their is a pill named Provigil that will help you stay awake during the day. Do a google search on it. Then talk to your doctor. Best wishes.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tom Devlin wrote: > kyte wrote: >>Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the >>sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It seems >>I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel just >>as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea. > Did you also get another sleep test? Re-titration might help your > diabetes treatment. > http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/diabetes_endocrine/hb05030… > Tom

yes, Tom, I am going to organise a new appt with the sleep doc, but there arent enough hours in the week. MY GP gave me a new referral (we need new ones every 12 months) but it probably wont take so long to get in this time as it did last year, because he already saw me once. trying to juggle all this as well as my regular work week. eek! — http://www.mindlessblather.com http://www.hamarana.com

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Charlie Perrin wrote: > On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:25:58 +1100, kyte wrote: >>So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt >>working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood sugars >>checked. Just in case. > And don’t forget the thyroid while you’re at it. It can cause all > sorts of problems. (Probably including forgetting to take your > Synthroid.)

rofl, got that too. diagnosed in 1983, got the medication compliance under control around the same time as the diagnosis of sleep apnea. doc thinks i also have lymphedema. i hope shes wrong. vascular studies etc etc looming. — http://www.mindlessblather.com http://www.hamarana.com

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kyte wrote: >Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the >sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It seems >I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel just >as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea.

Did you also get another sleep test? Re-titration might help your diabetes treatment. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/diabetes_endocrine/hb05030… Tom

Response:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:25:58 +1100, kyte wrote: >So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt >working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood sugars >checked. Just in case.

And don’t forget the thyroid while you’re at it. It can cause all sorts of problems. (Probably including forgetting to take your Synthroid.)

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Good point, you are absolutely right on that. "The Rocket Scientist" wrote in message news:1109795804.244721.95940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> kyte wrote: >> I had been having real success with the CPAP machine, all was going >> really well with it. But about 5 months ago, I began getting the > same >> old tired feeling, until recently I was, again, almost but not quite >> falling asleep whgilst driving. Needless to say I was quite miffed. > I >> have lost a bit of weight and if anything thought I should need less >> pressure, not more. >> Long story short, I went back to my GP to get another referral to the >> sleep doc, but also we did some blood tests at the same time. It > seems >> I have now got diabetes. And raised blood sugar can make you feel > just >> as tired and just as awful as untreated sleep apnea. >> So I guess I am recommending those who are finding that the CPAP isnt >> working for some unknown reason.. see if you can get your blood > sugars >> checked. Just in case. > Interesting. I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes long before my OSA > was diagnosed. I managed to get my blood glucose levels unger good > control but I still was feeling tired and falling asleep during the > day. > After getting on CPAP my blood glucose levels dropped considerably and > for a while I didn’t need meds. Unfortunately, diabetes is one of > those diseases that will inevitably get worse. I still have good > control but I am now taking Actos. > Bill Sullivan > "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny." — Lazarus Long

Response:

I love rutabegga!

admin — Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I didn’t inherit my Mom’s green fingers, unfortunately. I’m in maintenance so I don’t have a problem with the few higher carbs in rutabaga. I’ll stick with them. Yeah, they’re a bit strong-tasting and maybe even woody by then. Possibilities for microwave chips or French fries? Or maybe grated and cooked as a rosti? I don’t think I’d enjoy them boiled and mashed that big. I’m told they’re easy to grow, and you can eat the greens as a bonus, if you’re green-fingered?

—– Bev

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I have never eaten rutabegga before. I even had to get somebody at the store to point one out to me because I didn’t know what it looked like. So I got it home, washed it, peeled it, and cut it into smallish chunks so it would boil a little quicker. Boiled it Tasted it – tasted good! Mashed it. Added butter, pepper, sour cream, and chives. SUPER Yummy. I made meatloaf tonight, so I’ve got this mashed rutabegga on the side, they just go great together. — Spring LC since 1/1/04 260/198/170 "Before" & "current" pics at link below: http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sprgsnow/album?.tok=phX4sVBBuvxvs4Hs…

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I’d never eaten them pre-LC either. Now I can’t imagine going back to bland potatoes and use rutabaga wherever potatoes are called for, like stew, soup, etc. I have never eaten rutabegga before. I even had to get somebody at the store to point one out to me because I didn’t know what it looked like. So I got it home, washed it, peeled it, and cut it into smallish chunks so it would boil a little quicker. Boiled it Tasted it – tasted good! Mashed it. Added butter, pepper, sour cream, and chives. SUPER Yummy. I made meatloaf tonight, so I’ve got this mashed rutabegga on the side, they just go great together.

—– Bev

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never eaten rutabegga before. I even had to get somebody at the store to point one out to me because I didn’t know what it looked like. So I got it home, washed it, peeled it, and cut it into smallish chunks so it would boil a little quicker. Boiled it Tasted it – tasted good! Mashed it. Added butter, pepper, sour cream, and chives. SUPER Yummy. I made meatloaf tonight, so I’ve got this mashed rutabegga on the side, they just go great together. — Spring LC since 1/1/04 260/198/170

It may sound crazy, but boil it. mash it, add a little nutmeg on top, and serve! Irv — Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001 Beating it with diet and exercise! 297/215/210 (to be revised lower) 58"/43"(!)/44" (already lower too!) Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/index.htm Irv Finkleman, Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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I have never eaten rutabegga before.

I grate it, mix with gram flour, season, and deep-fry small balls twice (to make Indian bhajias). Yummy, and doesn’t budge my blood glucose meter. I often serve them with curried fish cakes, salad, and a low-carb tortilla to use as a chapatti. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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What is "gram flour"? I did a google search and it says it’s made from chickpeas? How does it compare to all-purpose flour? I grate it, mix with gram flour, season, and deep-fry small balls twice (to make Indian bhajias). Yummy, and doesn’t budge my blood glucose meter. I often serve them with curried fish cakes, salad, and a low-carb tortilla to use as a chapatti.

—– Bev

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What is "gram flour"? I did a google search and it says it’s made from chickpeas? How does it compare to all-purpose flour?

Yes, that’s the stuff. It’s used to make chapattis, the Indian unleavened bread; there’s a guy on alt.support.diabetes.uk who uses it to make pancakes, but I don’t like the taste. You can also make a dahl with it – sort of a savoury porridge, very filling and tasty. It’s comparatively low carb compared to all-purpose flour, but not THAT LC; but it’s very popular with diabetics, because it has a much smaller effect on blood glucose levels that you would expect. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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I have never eaten rutabegga before. I even had to get somebody at the store to point one out to me because I didn’t know what it looked

like. Rutabagas look a lot like larger more yellowish turnips. If you know what a turnip is that will be enough to identify them. They can be similar enough that some can’t tell them apart through several times the size of a turnip and with much darker yellowish flesh. So I got it home, washed it, peeled it, and cut it into smallish chunks so it would boil a little quicker.

Rutties cook slower than turnips. Boiled it Tasted it – tasted good! Mashed it. Added butter, pepper, sour cream, and chives. SUPER

Yummy. Rutties taste a bit like turnip but more intense.

Response:

It’s the opposite for me. I hate turnips because they’re intense. I find rutabagas to be much much milder and even slightly sweet. Rutties taste a bit like turnip but more intense.

—– Bev

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What is the carb count on rutabegga? Kristen

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It’s not the lowest carb veggie, so I generally don’t eat more than 1/2 a cup of mashed with my main meal. Like potatoes, it’s quite filling. You can look up nutrition info for most foods here: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html What is the carb count on rutabegga?

—– Bev

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Rutties taste a bit like turnip but more intense. It’s the opposite for me.

Vive la difference! I hate turnips because they’re intense. I find rutabagas to be much much milder and even slightly sweet.

More turnips for me then. I eat turnips comparatively often, rutties less oftem mostly because of the extra cooking. So we’re a team covering both. Maybe it’s the higher carb count aka more starch that you notice and something in the chemistry that I notice. "Swede" is a name for rutabaga, possibly for both rutties and turnips.

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I tried very hard to like turnips because they are lower in carbs than rutabaga. I added sweeteners, cream instead of soy milk, difference herbs and spices, but I just couldn’t hide their taste. I found sites on the net saying that the older the turnip, the stronger they are. Maybe we only get old turnips in Canada, even in the summer. I’ve only seen Swede in reference to rutabaga. More turnips for me then. I eat turnips comparatively often, rutties less oftem mostly because of the extra cooking. So we’re a team covering both. Maybe it’s the higher carb count aka more starch that you notice and something in the chemistry that I notice. "Swede" is a name for rutabaga, possibly for both rutties and turnips.

—– Bev

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I tried very hard to like turnips because they are lower in carbs than rutabaga. I added sweeteners, cream instead of soy milk, difference herbs and spices, but I just couldn’t hide their taste.

Small ones (about twice the size of a walnut in its shell), baked in the oven alongside a roast chicken? No strong turnip taste, just chicken-y yum : ) Shallots and garlic cloves thrown in too are pretty good also.. Nicky. — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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Maybe that’s the problem. The smallest turnips I’ve seen locally are about the size of a baseball. Small ones (about twice the size of a walnut in its shell), baked in the oven alongside a roast chicken? No strong turnip taste, just chicken-y yum : ) Shallots and garlic cloves thrown in too are pretty good also..

—– Bev

Response:

Maybe that’s the problem. The smallest turnips I’ve seen locally are about the size of a baseball.

Yeah, they’re a bit strong-tasting and maybe even woody by then. Possibilities for microwave chips or French fries? Or maybe grated and cooked as a rosti? I don’t think I’d enjoy them boiled and mashed that big. I’m told they’re easy to grow, and you can eat the greens as a bonus, if you’re green-fingered? Nicky (currently killing spring lettuces : ) — A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/77/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004