Diabetes Talking » Diabetes Mellitus

Diet and Weight Loss

admin — Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Obese individuals have an increased risk of developing chronic disease such as diabetes mellitus, hypertension, and some types of cancer. In addition obesity is associated with increased risk of developing osteoarthritis of the knees. Although supplementation can aid in the management and prevention of obesity as we will show from the research below, improving your diet and exercise are the most important things you can do to improve your metabolism and help your body shed the unwanted fat.2 Are there really any nutrients available today that help promote safe fat reduction? YES. Although there are many supplements today that contain herbs like Guarana, MaHuang and Ephedra that can have potentially harmful side effects, there are still many that safely help the body reduce its fat stores www.dontforgettotakeyourvitamins.com/morrison35053 — MAF Anti-Spam ID: 20050612143033I2r7AqR5

Thanks www.antiagingatlanta.com — rvsmithmd

Response:

Obese individuals have an increased risk of developing chronic disease such as diabetes mellitus, hypertension, and some types of cancer. In addition obesity is associated with increased risk of developing osteoarthritis of the knees. Although supplementation can aid in the management and prevention of obesity as we will show from the research below, improving your diet and exercise are the most important things you can do to improve your metabolism and help your body shed the unwanted fat.2 Are there really any nutrients available today that help promote safe fat reduction? YES. Although there are many supplements today that contain herbs like Guarana, MaHuang and Ephedra that can have potentially harmful side effects, there are still many that safely help the body reduce its fat stores www.dontforgettotakeyourvitamins.com/morrison35053 — MAF Anti-Spam ID: 20050612143033I2r7AqR5

Response:

I hope no one takes offense at this question.

admin — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

That isn’t the point. Anyone who’s willing to permanently change their lifestyle will benefit. You should have a good body image regardless. No magic pills necessary. It is also far better to be happy and stable rather than jumping on the bandwagon of all the fad diets. These fads all mess up your diet, which will cause long term medical problems.

That’s why the lifestyle changes need to be permanent. problem in the USA. The fact that 50% of the population is now overweight means the issue is far deeper than any flip answer that any smart-ass doctor-wannbe can make up.

The reason that we are fat is a combination of factors: 1) Easy access to cheap, fattening food. People who were poor used to be skinny, now poor people are among the fatest. 2) Ever growing portions in restaurants. 3) Modern conveniences lead to less activity. 4) We are a stressed out society and we don’t take the time to exercise. Here’s an experiment for you. For two months, lock your car in the garage and don’t use it. Don’t allow anyone to drive you around. Instead, take public transportation, but a bicycle, walk to where you need to go. Do not use elevators. If you need to get there, take the stairs. Eat the same number of calories. You will find that you have lost a lot of weight by the end of those two months. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

In all cases, even in the most severe genetic problems, eating less and exercising more will lead to weight loss and better health. Individuals with leptin mutations will not be normal weight regardless, nor will the fertility issues be alleviated by diet. Cite please.

Cites to leptin treatment articles are in post below. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here.

Response:

Cites to leptin treatment articles are in post below. I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here.

Reading is fundamental. I didn’t ask you to visit my web site. I asked you to scroll down to the post in this thread answering rdubose. You’ll find the cites there Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

Cites to leptin treatment articles are in post below. I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here. Reading is fundamental.

The only thing that I saw below your text was the link in your sig. There’s an opportunity for you to be more precise with your writing skills. I didn’t ask you to visit my web site. I asked you to scroll down to the post in this thread answering rdubose.

You are assuming that I sort my messages as you do. Do you also believe you are invisible to others when you close your eyes? You’ll find the cites there

I am not interested in searching your other messages. Post the pertinent cite(s) in a reply to this message.

Response:

So giving them leptin should make a lot of difference, right? If this is the case, please provide the evidence. Giving leptin deficient people leptin completely resolves the obesity and the fertility problems,

Yes. But cases of true leptin deficiency are exceedingly rare. however, individuals with leptin receptor mutations are not helped by recombinant leptin. They already produce leptin, but it is not taken up by the mutated receptor.

I could not find anything about leptin receptor problems. Besides, there is a conceptual problem here. There is no way to know whether obesity is due to leptin receptor inadequacies or not. Leptin is just one of many, many neurotransmitters which are known to be involved in the regulation of appetite/hunger in human beings. It is apparently important enough that a complete failure of its influence leads to serious derangement in appetite control with subsequent obesity. But it cannot be said that garden-variety obesity is due to leptin receptor resistance. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – References: Congenital leptin deficiency due to homozygosity for the Delta133G mutation: report of another case and evaluation of response to four years of leptin therapy. Gibson WT, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4821-6. Phenotypic effects of leptin replacement on morbid obesity, diabetes mellitus, hypogonadism, and behavior in leptin-deficient adults. Licinio J, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Mar 30;101(13):4531-6. Epub 2004 Mar 09. Full text available: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/13/4531 Beneficial effects of leptin on obesity, T cell hyporesponsiveness, and neuroendocrine/metabolic dysfunction of human congenital leptin deficiency. Farooqi IS, et al. J Clin Invest. 2002 Oct;110(8):1093-103. Full text available: http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/110/8/1093 Effects of recombinant leptin therapy in a child with congenital leptin deficiency. Farooqi IS, et al. N Engl J Med. 1999 Sep 16;341(12):879-84.

Giving Vit C to someone with scurvy will effect a dramatic, obvious cure. Giving vit C to someone without scurvy produces nothing at all that is not subject to continuuing controversy as to whether it exists or not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See also: Monogenic human obesity syndromes. Farooqi IS, et al. Recent Prog Horm Res. 2004;59:409-24. Obesity due to proopiomelanocortin deficiency: three new cases and treatment trials with thyroid hormone and ACTH4-10. Krude H, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct;88(10):4633-40. There are many others, but these should be sufficient. Leptin deficiency is very rare. There are probably fewer than 100 people in whom this has been discovered. I have access to all the articles above. If you want me to shoot you a copy of any or all of them, send me your e-mail addy. Address above is fake, but you will get autoresponder with real address by writing it. Invoking the idea of an "undiscovered " genetic factor and waving the concept of "predisposition" around one can claim that any behavior whatsoever is genetic. And in the future we’re probably going to discover those genetic factors. The fact is that some people can eat anything they want and never gain and ounce, while others only need to eat a few calories over metabolic rate and gain — even if physical activity between the two groups is the same.

First of all, it has been shown, over and over again, that self reporting of food intake is of no value. Fat people lie a lot. Second, there is no way to know that physical activity levels are the same amongst different people without doing continuuous measurements of oxygen consumption. The amount of calories/fuel needed to accomplish various activities varies widely from one person to the next depending on bio-mechanical efficiency. Also, people vary a lot in the amount of unconscious fidgeting, foot tapping, squirming around while supposedly sitting still. Indeed, this is probably the largest factor that is truly genetic. This varies much more than true "basal metabolism". In other words, it is a waste of time to arbitrarily assume that physical activity/energy burning is the same between two people because the are assigned or report doing the same things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The difference between the two? Genetics. Like, "Everyone who is fit at the age of fifty has some undiscovered genetic predisposition to run a lot." Huh? So what? Are you looking to get better or find absolution? As if anyone cares whether you feel justified or not. Health is good; I wasn’t debating the point with you, you’re preaching to the choir. I personally exercise in excess of 10 hours a week and weigh 124 pounds after having lost close to 90 pounds in 1996-1997. fat acceptors tell us that losing fat is so incredibly difficult, that your bodies struggle to hang onto fat content even to the extent of burning up essential muscle mass first and even to the extent of putting you into a low-energy starvation mode if you try to burn any of your stored fat. If you exercise you will lose little if any lean muscle mass, especially if you pump iron. Strength training preserves and grows lean muscle mass, and aerobic activity burns fat.

Very true and very important. I wish that some on this ng would acknowledge this instead of complaining that weight loss is impossible without ruining their bodies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The above and a 500 kcal deficit should result in dramatic weight loss in most individuals, especially if you are very overweight. I do not know about you, but this does not sound like something to "acept." Well, now you do, and know that it is not something I "accept". Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang.

There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny. OTOH, fat people have skin folds that harbor bacteria, and some people are so obese that they are unable reach their anuses to wipe properly. Reach tools are a frequent topic of discussion on ssfa as well as fat acceptance discussion boards. See http://www.amplestuff.com for a listing of such implements. The fat acceptors have also recommended wrapping toilet paper around a wooden spoon as a solution to the problem of being unable to reach one’s anus.

Response:

See http://www.amplestuff.com for a listing of such implements. The fat acceptors have also recommended wrapping toilet paper around a wooden spoon as a solution to the problem of being unable to reach one’s anus.

Doesn’t that make the brownies taste funny? — (o< |) // ..may the beacon /obt. V_/_ pass you by.. //iller 2:50pm up 31 days, 22:27, 19 users, load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00 processes 905896

Response:

I use a hose

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang. There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny. OTOH, fat people have skin folds that harbor bacteria, and some people are so obese that they are unable reach their anuses to wipe properly. Reach tools are a frequent topic of discussion on ssfa as well as fat acceptance discussion boards. See http://www.amplestuff.com for a listing of such implements. The fat acceptors have also recommended wrapping toilet paper around a wooden spoon as a solution to the problem of being unable to reach one’s anus.

Response:

skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang. There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny. OTOH, fat people have skin folds that harbor bacteria, and some people are so obese that they are unable reach their anuses to wipe properly.

You know, this was one of the things I noticed as I was losing weight. It was easier to wipe my butt. (really) My hands also feel skinny, I can see my wrist bones, and my wife says it is like having sex with a different person. There are a lot of bennies from losing weight.

Response:

EWWWWWW!!!!!!

Response:

skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang. There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny.

You’ll start to notice "odor issues" if you ever reach puberty.

Response:

The thing is that most obese people are in denial over their condition. That’s the reason they never manage to lose it, they’re too busy telling themselves "it must be glandular" to notice how many sodas and snacks they cram down their gullets every day. The main cause of obesity is the "I was quite good yesterday so it won’t matter if I have that extra ice cream" system of dieting. Yes, *some* people have genetic problems, but only two or three percent (and this is borne out by the fact that many countries *do* have a 2-3% obesity rate, eg. Spain – where I live). The obesity rate of the USA is 20-30 times the natural rate. The reasons why are obvious to anybody who visits the USA – 2 liter Cokes on sale in MacDonalds, etc. What kind of pig can actually manage to drink two liters of Cola in a single sitting? — fungus "Imagine watching the entire French Air Force crash into a firework factory, that’s how much fun this is…" J.C.

Response:

Did your wife tell you the name of the person it was like having sex with? Its too bad you had to lose weight for her to fess up.

Response:

why do we go on about this? has anyone ever heard of the french invention of the BIDET???????

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang. There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny. OTOH, fat people have skin folds that harbor bacteria, and some people are so obese that they are unable reach their anuses to wipe properly. You know, this was one of the things I noticed as I was losing weight. It was easier to wipe my butt. (really) My hands also feel skinny, I can see my wrist bones, and my wife says it is like having sex with a different person. There are a lot of bennies from losing weight.

Response:

How many polacks does it take to bake chocolate chip cookies? Two – one to mix the batter, one to squeeze the rabbit.

Response:

why do we go on about this? has anyone ever heard of the french invention of the BIDET??????? There’s a lot of shit stained surface area to be cleaned. The water stream won’t be wide enough. The fat ass would have to spread his/her cheeks wide and gyrate. They would also have to hover over the bidet while doing this supporting their own weight. What are the chances of them going to all of that strain and effort just to clean themselves? Derm

I’ve read that the rare feces gem can occur from this phenomonom, leave enough feces long enough under enough pressure and this highly valuable gem can occur, depending on diet and excercise of course. Raiding fatty buttocks for this priceless comodity can be dangerous though. So be careful when raiding those overweight slippery buns!

Response:

Yes, *some* people have genetic problems, but only two or three percent (and this is borne out by the fact that many countries *do* have a 2-3%

5 to 6 percent of the population has one or more mutations of the melanocortin-4 receptor (MC4R), the largest monogenic cause of obesity. There are other rarer genetic mutations, like defective leptin receptor or leptin deficiency. In all cases, even in the most severe genetic problems, eating less and exercising more will lead to weight loss and better health. Individuals with leptin mutations will not be normal weight regardless, nor will the fertility issues be alleviated by diet. Depending on the severity of MC4R mutation, some individuals may be able to maintain normal weight with a lot of dedication. All people who are obese have a discovered or undiscovered genetic predisposition to obesity. However, environment also plays a role. And if individuals who gain weight easily will moderate food intake and exercise, they will lose weight, and may even become normal weight with enough dedication. However, in all cases they will be better off doing something than nothing. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

And if individuals who gain weight easily will moderate food intake and exercise, they will lose weight, and may even become normal weight with enough dedication. However, in all cases they will be better off doing something than nothing.

That is a bunch of BS. A person who is willing accept themselves as they are and be happy is far better off than one who is obsessive about their body image and not happy with their body. If you listen to all this "magic pill to lose weight" advertising, one will go crazy. It is also far better to be happy and stable rather than jumping on the bandwagon of all the fad diets. These fads all mess up your diet, which will cause long term medical problems. Finally, don’t listen to a skinny doctor. They have no clue what they are talking about, and cannot possibly know how to counsel or treat an overweight person. If it were so easy to eat right and get proper exercise, there would not be a weight problem in the USA. The fact that 50% of the population is now overweight means the issue is far deeper than any flip answer that any smart-ass doctor-wannbe can make up. -john- — Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com

Response:

All people who are obese have a discovered or undiscovered genetic predisposition to obesity. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

That can’t be right, surely? Even if it were a minority, some must be obese just through overeating and not moving enough? I would certainly have put myself in the bone idle category. Rachael

Response:

Cite please.

Response:

Yes, *some* people have genetic problems, but only two or three percent (and this is borne out by the fact that many countries *do* have a 2-3% 5 to 6 percent of the population has one or more mutations of the melanocortin-4 receptor (MC4R), the largest monogenic cause of obesity. There are other rarer genetic mutations, like defective leptin receptor or leptin deficiency.

So giving them leptin should make a lot of difference, right? If this is the case, please provide the evidence. In all cases, even in the most severe genetic problems, eating less and exercising more will lead to weight loss and better health. Individuals with leptin mutations will not be normal weight regardless, nor will the fertility issues be alleviated by diet. Depending on the severity of MC4R mutation, some individuals may be able to maintain normal weight with a lot of dedication. All people who are obese have a discovered or undiscovered genetic predisposition to obesity.

Invoking the idea of an "undiscovered " genetic factor and waving the concept of "predisposition" around one can claim that any behavior whatsoever is genetic. Like, "Everyone who is fit at the age of fifty has some undiscovered genetic predisposition to run a lot." So what? Are you looking to get better or find absolution? As if anyone cares whether you feel justified or not. Health is good; crippled and ugly is bad. Neither are the ultimate in goodness or badness but no decent/sane person would casually chose badness. If you guys would only listen better to what you are saying. Lots of fat acceptors tell us that losing fat is so incredibly difficult, that your bodies struggle to hang onto fat content even to the extent of burning up essential muscle mass first and even to the extent of putting you into a low-energy starvation mode if you try to burn any of your stored fat. What is fat for if you cannot use it in a good way for energy utilization??? If rolls of fat around your middle cannot be good even for calorie storage/utilization then it is a truly pathological outcome — something really bad and mal-adaptive – something that nature would never do to someone to help them survive – the opposite of fitness in other words. I do not know about you, but this does not sound like something to "acept." However, environment also plays a role. And – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if individuals who gain weight easily will moderate food intake and exercise, they will lose weight, and may even become normal weight with enough dedication. However, in all cases they will be better off doing something than nothing. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

So giving them leptin should make a lot of difference, right? If this is the case, please provide the evidence.

Giving leptin deficient people leptin completely resolves the obesity and the fertility problems, however, individuals with leptin receptor mutations are not helped by recombinant leptin. They already produce leptin, but it is not taken up by the mutated receptor. References: Congenital leptin deficiency due to homozygosity for the Delta133G mutation: report of another case and evaluation of response to four years of leptin therapy. Gibson WT, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4821-6. Phenotypic effects of leptin replacement on morbid obesity, diabetes mellitus, hypogonadism, and behavior in leptin-deficient adults. Licinio J, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Mar 30;101(13):4531-6. Epub 2004 Mar 09. Full text available: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/13/4531 Beneficial effects of leptin on obesity, T cell hyporesponsiveness, and neuroendocrine/metabolic dysfunction of human congenital leptin deficiency. Farooqi IS, et al. J Clin Invest. 2002 Oct;110(8):1093-103. Full text available: http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/110/8/1093 Effects of recombinant leptin therapy in a child with congenital leptin deficiency. Farooqi IS, et al. N Engl J Med. 1999 Sep 16;341(12):879-84. See also: Monogenic human obesity syndromes. Farooqi IS, et al. Recent Prog Horm Res. 2004;59:409-24. Obesity due to proopiomelanocortin deficiency: three new cases and treatment trials with thyroid hormone and ACTH4-10. Krude H, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct;88(10):4633-40. There are many others, but these should be sufficient. Leptin deficiency is very rare. There are probably fewer than 100 people in whom this has been discovered. I have access to all the articles above. If you want me to shoot you a copy of any or all of them, send me your e-mail addy. Address above is fake, but you will get autoresponder with real address by writing it. Invoking the idea of an "undiscovered " genetic factor and waving the concept of "predisposition" around one can claim that any behavior whatsoever is genetic.

And in the future we’re probably going to discover those genetic factors. The fact is that some people can eat anything they want and never gain and ounce, while others only need to eat a few calories over metabolic rate and gain — even if physical activity between the two groups is the same. The difference between the two? Genetics. Like, "Everyone who is fit at the age of fifty has some undiscovered genetic predisposition to run a lot."

Huh? So what? Are you looking to get better or find absolution? As if anyone cares whether you feel justified or not. Health is good;

I wasn’t debating the point with you, you’re preaching to the choir. I personally exercise in excess of 10 hours a week and weigh 124 pounds after having lost close to 90 pounds in 1996-1997. fat acceptors tell us that losing fat is so incredibly difficult, that your bodies struggle to hang onto fat content even to the extent of burning up essential muscle mass first and even to the extent of putting you into a low-energy starvation mode if you try to burn any of your stored fat.

If you exercise you will lose little if any lean muscle mass, especially if you pump iron. Strength training preserves and grows lean muscle mass, and aerobic activity burns fat. The above and a 500 kcal deficit should result in dramatic weight loss in most individuals, especially if you are very overweight. I do not know about you, but this does not sound like something to "acept."

Well, now you do, and know that it is not something I "accept". Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

I am not interested in searching your other messages. Post the pertinent cite(s) in a reply to this message.

Sorry, if you’re too dumb to be able to scroll down, or look for my messages under this thread, there isn’t any hope for you anyway. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

serious derangement in appetite control with subsequent obesity. But it cannot be said that garden-variety obesity is due to leptin receptor resistance.

I never said that it did. In fact I said that it was exceedingly rare. You asked me for cites, and I provided them. Giving Vit C to someone with scurvy will effect a dramatic, obvious cure. Giving vit C to someone without scurvy produces nothing at all that is not subject to continuuing controversy as to whether it exists or not.

And your point is? First of all, it has been shown, over and over again, that self reporting of food intake is of no value. Fat people lie a lot.

Depends on the study. If you’re an in-patient food intake is controlled, if it’s out patient, then it’s less reliable. Most studies, and practically all long term studies, are out-patient. If you exercise you will lose little if any lean muscle mass, especially if you pump iron. Strength training preserves and grows lean muscle mass, and aerobic activity burns fat. Very true and very important. I wish that some on this ng would acknowledge this instead of complaining that weight loss is impossible without ruining their bodies.

Well, you’re posting to several newsgroups. I’m answering from alt.support.diet. So there isn’t anyone in this group who has given up on the idea of improving health through diet and exercise. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

FROM A CLINICAL POINT OF VIEW:

admin — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Tom You’re a genious! Thanks for sharing mate. I do the vege lifestyle thing too but was put on controlled release iron supplements a couple of years ago due to acquired anaemia. There was no problem with anaemia until Dilantin came on the scene! In the last couple of weeks I’ve gotten progressively more tired and weak so saw doc today and she ran a full blood – which includes the overload possibility. She says my liver may be a bit ‘tired’ right now trying to break down the meds and iron tabs. Here’s hoping that’s what the prob is and I’ll toss the iron tabs out! Cheers Fran New Zealand

Response:

The first clinical manifestations (weakness, sexual dysfunction, arthralgia, cardiac symptoms, dyspnoea on effort) can occur after the age of 30 years in men and 35 years in women (protected for longer by menstruation, pregnancy and delivery). In the absence of diagnosis, severe complications can develop during the 5th decade: nervous breakdown, arthropathy, heart failure, diabetes mellitus, cirrhosis with risk of progression towards carcinoma, responsible for handicaps and premature death. DIAGNOSTIC ELEMENTS: The diagnosis is evoked in the case of an increase in transferrine saturation (>45%) http://tinyurl.com/66on6 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

FROM A CLINICAL POINT OF VIEW:

admin — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

What exactly is a nervous breakdown, asks the woman who has been working in the mental health field for 20 years? do you mean having to go to the hospital for depression or a schizophrenic break? do you mean being anxious? Do you mean a panic attack?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first clinical manifestations (weakness, sexual dysfunction, arthralgia, cardiac symptoms, dyspnoea on effort) can occur after the age of 30 years in men and 35 years in women (protected for longer by menstruation, pregnancy and delivery). In the absence of diagnosis, severe complications can develop during the 5th decade: nervous breakdown, arthropathy, heart failure, diabetes mellitus, cirrhosis with risk of progression towards carcinoma, responsible for handicaps and premature death. DIAGNOSTIC ELEMENTS: The diagnosis is evoked in the case of an increase in transferrine saturation (45%) http://tinyurl.com/66on6 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.headaches.migraine Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:14 PM The first clinical manifestations (weakness, sexual dysfunction, arthralgia, cardiac symptoms, dyspnoea on effort) can occur after the age of 30 years in men and 35 years in women (protected for longer by menstruation, pregnancy and delivery). In the absence of diagnosis, severe complications can develop during the 5th decade: nervous breakdown, arthropathy, heart failure, diabetes mellitus, cirrhosis with risk of progression towards carcinoma, responsible for handicaps and premature death. Who loves ya. Tom Well, Tom … or Cassandra … or better yet, Dr. Strangelove. That’s all very nice to know. Thank you for sending us such kind words of encouragement. Just what was needed for this bleak winter morning. After reading that, I think I’ll go make a nice hot cup of hemlock tea. Happy New Year. BobB

Response:

The first clinical manifestations (weakness, sexual dysfunction, arthralgia, cardiac symptoms, dyspnoea on effort) can occur after the age of 30 years in men and 35 years in women (protected for longer by menstruation, pregnancy and delivery). In the absence of diagnosis, severe complications can develop during the 5th decade: nervous breakdown, arthropathy, heart failure, diabetes mellitus, cirrhosis with risk of progression towards carcinoma, responsible for handicaps and premature death. DIAGNOSTIC ELEMENTS: The diagnosis is evoked in the case of an increase in transferrine saturation (45%) http://tinyurl.com/66on6 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

I hope no one takes offense at this question.

admin — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Response:

So giving them leptin should make a lot of difference, right? If this is the case, please provide the evidence.

Huh? So what? Are you looking to get better or find absolution? As if anyone cares whether you feel justified or not. Health is good;

Response:

My cat is like that. Chunks of crunchy cat poo stuck to the underside of her tail. I have to chase her around the house with a paper towel every time she gets out of the litterbox. Em —– When in trouble or in doubt, Run in circles, scream and shout.

Response:

Cite please.

Response:

That can’t be right, surely? Even if it were a minority, some must be obese just through overeating and not moving enough? I would certainly have put myself in the bone idle category. Rachael

Response:

Yes, *some* people have genetic problems, but only two or three percent (and this is borne out by the fact that many countries *do* have a 2-3%

Response:

How many polacks does it take to bake chocolate chip cookies? Two – one to mix the batter, one to squeeze the rabbit.

Response:

why do we go on about this? has anyone ever heard of the french invention of the BIDET???????

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang. There are no odor issues inherent with being skinny. OTOH, fat people have skin folds that harbor bacteria, and some people are so obese that they are unable reach their anuses to wipe properly. You know, this was one of the things I noticed as I was losing weight. It was easier to wipe my butt. (really) My hands also feel skinny, I can see my wrist bones, and my wife says it is like having sex with a different person. There are a lot of bennies from losing weight.

Response:

Did your wife tell you the name of the person it was like having sex with? Its too bad you had to lose weight for her to fess up.

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EWWWWWW!!!!!!

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I use a hose

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Doesn’t that make the brownies taste funny? — (o< |) // ..may the beacon /obt. V_/_ pass you by.. //iller 2:50pm up 31 days, 22:27, 19 users, load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00 processes 905896

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skinny people are capable of smelling too I will spare you the gory details but trust me it aint just a fat thang.

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serious derangement in appetite control with subsequent obesity. But it cannot be said that garden-variety obesity is due to leptin receptor resistance.

And your point is? First of all, it has been shown, over and over again, that self reporting of food intake is of no value. Fat people lie a lot.

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Cites to leptin treatment articles are in post below. I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here. Reading is fundamental.

You are assuming that I sort my messages as you do. Do you also believe you are invisible to others when you close your eyes? You’ll find the cites there

I am not interested in searching your other messages. Post the pertinent cite(s) in a reply to this message.

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Cites to leptin treatment articles are in post below. I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here.

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I am not interested in visiting your web site. You posted your claim here, you can post your cites here.

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Here’s an experiment for you. For two months, lock your car in the garage and don’t use it. Don’t allow anyone to drive you around. Instead, take public transportation, but a bicycle, walk to where you need to go. Do not use elevators. If you need to get there, take the stairs. Eat the same number of calories. You will find that you have lost a lot of weight by the end of those two months.

I know this suggestion wasn’t addressed to me, but I wish this was an experiment I could realistically try. It isn’t really a viable suggestion for someone like me who lives in exurbia, 20 miles from her job and from the nearest public transportation terminus, with the only roads there two-lane highways with no shoulders and with heavy rush hour traffic. I’d love to be able to go anywhere useful by bike or on foot! But it would be incredibly unsafe to ride bikes on these roads, or even to walk on most of them. (Well, I can walk or bike to our country club, but that’s about it.) But I do exercise . Chris 262/135/ (135-145)

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Ninety minutes

admin — Sun, 05 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve written up a page about blood sugar targets and supplemented it with a second page that summarizes and links the relevant research articles supporting the target. http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/bloodsugartargets.htm — Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.7 . Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Jenny’s new site: What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… stract&list_uids=15343240&itool=iconabstr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will give it a go just for a change. What level to aim for – none is really suggested ?

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Some research is now suggesting that ninety minutes is the optimum time for testing post-prandial bgs. The study used diabetic women … CONCLUSION: The time interval for postprandial glucose peak in diabetic pregnancies is approximately 90 minutes after meals throughout the day and is not affected by the level of glycemic control. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… I will give it a go just for a change. What level to aim for – none is really suggested ?

I notice that this study was limited to diabetic *pregnancy,* and a very small sample was used (total of 65 — 26 treated by diet alone; 19 received insulin therapy, and 20 had type 1 diabetes mellitus). It’s an interesting study, but I hope there will be a follow-up with a larger sample and one involving the general diabetes population (that is, not restricted to pregnancy). MaryL

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That IS interesting – and I’m glad some other people got tied up to a continuous monitor so I wouldn’t have to : ) I’d assumed that when the peak happens was a YMMV thing, and would be moderated by fat – but these guys are pretty definite about the 90 minutes not varying. Interesting! I might give it a go also – after I’ve done some 15-min intervals around the 1-2 hour peiod and check it works for me. I’d guess you’d want to stay with the usual 1-hour peak figure, which for me is 7.5 just now. Nicky. — HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/79/72 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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They tested *pregnant* *women* only. Their suggestion was for pregnant women only. I’ve done a lot of peak-hunting myself, and have found that in my case the peak occurs between 40 and 100 mins after starting to eat. Since my highest peaks always occur at 40 mins, and in general the longer it takes to peak the lower, my own testing is at 40 mins, plus another test 10-20 mins later to see if it’s rising or falling. If it’s rising I keep checking until it falls. I have also noticed that some meals have two distinct peaks, due to two main components with different glycemic indices, but again the early peak is always the highest. Why do we always have to read a research report and then speculate endlessly about these things? We’ve all got meters. We can find out for ourselves. One thing I found out very quickly is that my meter often tells me a different story than research reports, and I know which I prefer as a guide to my own BG control! — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

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I’ve written up a page about blood sugar targets and supplemented it with a second page that summarizes and links the relevant research articles supporting the target. http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/bloodsugartargets.htm Yes we aim for 7.7 at 1 hr pp and 6.7 at 2 hrs. What shall I do for 90 minutes – split the difference at 7.2 ?

No, it’s saying that the peak occurs at 90 mins, so go for <7.7 Nicky. — HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/79/72 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

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Yes we aim for 7.7 at 1 hr pp and 6.7 at 2 hrs. What shall I do for 90 minutes – split the difference at 7.2 ?

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Statins – any one got anything to say about them?

admin — Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Irbesartan is a medication used to treat high blood pressure and diabetics. Buy irbesartan hydrochlorothiazide and feel better today!

Question:

I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome Ron O’Brien

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I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!),

So why refuse to be a "type"? Ok, it’s a label, but it’s a very useful lable when it comes to such things as hospital treatment for things unrelated to DM. for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result.

I don’t know if there’s a hard and fast rule/link, but I doubt it. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first.

Come on Ron, you ARE given the opportunity to lower your cholesterol by any means you want. No-one (including doctors) can MAKE you take ANY drug. All it requires is for you to say "Thanks, but no thanks, I’ll go another route first, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll see about the statins". If he’s such a petty bleeder as to give you grief about your choice, maybe it’s time for another GP. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!!

So don’t take any, but ask yourself this. As an insulin user, ALL your prescription charges are waived, so what benefit would the gov’mint gain by getting you hooked on ‘em? It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications.

So don’t take any. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome

There’s always a conspiracy about something or other. Beav

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i ‘jumped’ to 5.25 with a perfect HDL and Trig level….. it’s just that my HDL was so high it pushed my total chol figure over the top given the side benefits of a ’statin med i’ll happily take them for the rest of my life….. i know…. that sounds terrible…… THE REST OF YOUR LIFE…… however i want that to be a LONG a LIFE as possible if that means a ’statin…. so be it i had a liver/muscle enzyme test done BEFORE i started the ’statin and again at the 6 week mark to see if there was a significant change……. it did go up, but not significantly…… that is the best ‘test’ for a statin that i can think of…… and to avoid having one is fool hardy at best good luck kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome Ron O’Brien

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Nothing to stop you taking them and then stopping. I did. Note that it might be wise to supplement with CoQ10 when taking a statin, may prevent some of the muscular side effects which affect some. I found no muscular side effects, but was already taking CoQ10 for a heart condition anyway. I stopped because of a suspicion of cognitive side effects. At my age (60) hard to be sure, but I didn’t want to be unsure! — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome

Statins are the "wonder" drug of the age and so effective, and with so few side-effects, that they will probably become OTC. They could well be a sound investment, finanically and medically, for the NHS, reducing all sorts of conditions from circulation problems, amputations, blindness, aneurysms, angioplasties, heart bypass operations, heart attacks, strokes, high blood pressure and many other causes of premature death and high-cost long-term care. Why anyone would not wish to take them is beyond me, and I’m not saying they should be a replacement for a healthy lifestyle. JPG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron O’Brien

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Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome

Well the American College of Physicians have summat to say about statins in their recent guidelines. Their 4 recommendations are below and which seem to suggest every T2 should be on a statin ? Lipid control in the management of type 2 diabetes mellitus: a clinical practice guideline from the American College of Physicians. "RECOMMENDATION 1: Lipid-lowering therapy should be used for secondary prevention of cardiovascular mortality and morbidity for all patients (both men and women) with known coronary artery disease and type 2 diabetes. RECOMMENDATION 2: Statins should be used for primary prevention against macrovascular complications in patients (both men and women) with type 2 diabetes and other cardiovascular risk factors. RECOMMENDATION 3: Once lipid-lowering therapy is initiated, patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus should be taking at least moderate doses of a statin. RECOMMENDATION 4: For those patients with type 2 diabetes who are taking statins, routine monitoring of liver function tests or muscle enzymes is not recommended except in specific circumstances." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… On the subject of rhabdowhatsit a JAMA article published this month found one case of hospitalised rhab per 10000 patients . "RESULTS: In 252 460 patients treated with lipid-lowering agents, 24 cases of hospitalized rhabdomyolysis occurred during treatment." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… There was also a summary article about statins and type 2 diabetes in the Lancet on 27th November but it hasn’t been summarised on the abstract services yet.

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First, ARA (also known as ACE II) are much less likely to have any side-effects. That is the drugs ending *sartan* – Valsartan, Losartan, Irbesartan. Second, not a lifelong thing! Third, if you need them you need them. How about giving them a try to get your lipids in order quickly? Then extra physical activity and reducing carbohydrate should take care of the problem, and then drop the pills. Last, 5.3 is not too bad, on dx I was 7.7, and not given pills but advised to get my HbA1c to less than 7.0. Yours at 8.5 is dangerously high, maybe you need to increase bolus insulin a bit. What is your 1 hour pp reading, please? Alan in the UK

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My Cardiologist added Zetia to my meds. I had a blood test 2 months later. My LDL had gone down to 59. The doctor is very happy. PJ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome Statins are the "wonder" drug of the age and so effective, and with so few side-effects, that they will probably become OTC. They could well be a sound investment, finanically and medically, for the NHS, reducing all sorts of conditions from circulation problems, amputations, blindness, aneurysms, angioplasties, heart bypass operations, heart attacks, strokes, high blood pressure and many other causes of premature death and high-cost long-term care. Why anyone would not wish to take them is beyond me, and I’m not saying they should be a replacement for a healthy lifestyle. JPG Ron O’Brien

Simvastatin is already OTC, something I am not particularly happy about. The do have few side effects, but should those side effects continue unchecked then they are potentially very harmful indeed. Take Rhabdomyalsis (sp?) – muscle weakness. If the patient does not stop taking the statin then permanent damage can be done. As many people point out, the heart is a muscle and for a group of people such as those with DM where there is an increased risk of a heart condition anyway, the implications are potentially serious. Now that does not mean that I think statins are dangerous in themselves, but only that they can be when used uncontrolled. We have a bizarre culture of "more is better" in this country. Moderation is not the way the majority of people approach things. So despite everything on the label, if statins reduce chol, then more statin will give you less chol, right? Never mind that more statin increases the risk of side effects. How many people out there are aware of the potential side effects of simple painkillers like paracetamol (acetaminophen in the US)? How many do you think even read the label? How many who do, believe them? Are you aware that paracetamol can cause liver, kidney and platelet damage? I firmly believe that all statins should only be available on prescription and that the patient should be specifically warned about potential side effects and what to do if they occur. Liver function tests as a minimum should be mandatory before starting with checks after an appropriate period. Statins are the latest fad in medicine and there have been too many calls for them to be handed out like smarties. There are dangers of serious side effects to around 2% of people. I have this image of the man on the street deciding that since he’s obese, taking a statin and 2 days later feeling a lot of weakness in muscles. Instead of seeing the doc, he takes painkillers. Alternatively he reads some crap out of a magazine that gives garbage medical advice (like the crap my mother comes out with occasionally) and decides it is another condition and takes another OTC med. By the time he does get to a doc (or A&E) permanent damage has been done when in fact all that needed to be done was change to another statin. Remember that many people find they suffer side effects on one statin but not on another. Ron, Rather than blindly take a statin, I suggest that you get a lipid breakdown done if you have not done so already and take actions to adjust those results, rather than just the overall total chol. Sounds to me like your trigs are up. Drop the A1c and the trigs will follow to some extent. Do that for 3 months and if things have not improved, go ahead with the statin. Make sure you understand what the potential side effects are from leaflets, websites (drugs.com, rxlist.com) and discussions with your doc. Watch out for the side effects and get back to your doc immediately if you experience them. You can always switch to another statin and retry until you find something that works for you. Get liver function blood tests done before you start a statin. You’ve already got a knackered pancreas, you don’t want a knackered liver too Do it right and there is nothing to worry about. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

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Statins have a tremendous effect on death from heart attack rates and heart attack rates in general. Some of it doesn’t make sense since the effect on premature death is even greater than the reduction in cholesterol would indicate. The docs think the statins do something to protect the artery walls while they are reducing cholesterol levels. Statins are not a "life thing". You can take them for a while, then stop, then start, or whatever. However, why you would want to stop is beyond me unless you are feeling suicidal or something. Remember to memorize the ‘bad" side effects and watch for them. If you are one of the unlucky few who experience them, you must stop taking them, then take your chances with early heart attack. Something to think about in the conspiracy area: Statins stop you from dropping dead. Diabetics need expensive medical coverage so it’s cheaper if you drop dead. If the government had some nefarious reasons to "get you", they would avoid giving you expensive statins so that the expensive diabetic would "go away more quickly" Regards Old Al

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i liked it better when you gave info that you are an adult onset t1 bill t1 since ‘57

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Below 5 is considered good enough for govmint work. Mine’s 4.5 for which I received a pat on the back (although that didn’t change anything:) Beav

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i’m in the USA and haven’t a clue as to what "5.3" means for a cholesterol level test i do have a clue on an HbA1c of 8.5 and while it’s not bad it does need work I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month

50 – 34 = you got diabetes at age 16. odds are yer a type-1 diabetic and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins.

avoid taking meds long term, other than stuff like insulin and thyroid hormone (both of which i take) fwiw, docs have to be intelligent to become docs, which tends to mean that they’re great on details; which means that they often (i.e. 51%) do not see the forest coz they’re too focused on the trees I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first.

drink dry red wine coz it will raise yer HDL. :) I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications.

any (almost all?) "drug"/supplements have negative side effects the more you take the more negative side effects you get afaik there are a few exceptions to this and some insulins and some thyroid meds may be in this category (both are hormones, insulin is complex (52 amino acids?) and thyroid is simple (1 amino acid) Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome

to repeat: avoid taking meds long term (if you can) also, the standard cholesterol test has little or no corelation with possible heart/artery problems for a much better/new test see: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:4nJfR_fhGnoJ:www.msnbc.msn.com/i… (i went to www.google.com and searched on "cholesterol correlate heart attack") best, bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI p.s. assuming yer in the UK, you still have easy access to beef insulin, which is hands down the best for background insulin, and the R (CP’s "soluble") is also useful. :)

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Why anyone would not wish to take them is beyond me, and I’m not saying they should be a replacement for a healthy lifestyle. JPG Of course we have to assume that people take them responsibly.

That’s not a very good thing to do though. Beav

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course we have to assume that people take them responsibly. JPG JPG, Just reread my post. Sorry if it reads as if there was anything personal in it. I was just in rant mode.

No offence taken. I just believe that we should take advantage of whatever is available – with the usual caveats (side effects etc). JPG T2/UK/A1c 6.8/2550Met 40Rosi/Dx Oct-98 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome Statins are the "wonder" drug of the age and so effective, and with so few side-effects, that they will probably become OTC. They could well be a sound investment, finanically and medically, for the NHS, reducing all sorts of conditions from circulation problems, amputations, blindness, aneurysms, angioplasties, heart bypass operations, heart attacks, strokes, high blood pressure and many other causes of premature death and high-cost long-term care. Why anyone would not wish to take them is beyond me, and I’m not saying they should be a replacement for a healthy lifestyle. JPG

Of course we have to assume that people take them responsibly. JPG

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JPG, Just reread my post. Sorry if it reads as if there was anything personal in it. I was just in rant mode. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

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with everything ‘in range’ or low normal except for my HDL Chol……. my total was 5.25 and i was put on a statin med for that my new numbers have reduced the LDL even further and the trigs even further so i’m at 4.5 and holding……. with high HDL levels still go figure kate

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve probably missed most of the replies to this post…. But replying to the original question.. yes i have. I’ve been using atorvastatin (Lipitor) for some time and recently (after some horrifically high levels) the dose was doubled to 40mg a day. Very quickly afterwards the mild loss of feeling in my extremeities became much much worse. I lost feeling in all my toes and partially in my feet as well. I also started to get severe burning pains in my hands and my nerves are hyper sensitive. I read on the web that some people have reported this and stopped my statins to see if it made any difference. Well, it has. After a month of non use feeling is returning. At the moment the only anti cholesterol I’m using is the plant sterols found in Benecol foods. Am due a blood test soon for cholesterol so will see what effect that has had! Martin T2 since ‘98 Novorapid x 3 Levemir x 2 I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. i’m in the USA and haven’t a clue as to what "5.3" means for a cholesterol level test i do have a clue on an HbA1c of 8.5 and while it’s not bad it does need work I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month 50 – 34 = you got diabetes at age 16. odds are yer a type-1 diabetic and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. avoid taking meds long term, other than stuff like insulin and thyroid hormone (both of which i take) fwiw, docs have to be intelligent to become docs, which tends to mean that they’re great on details; which means that they often (i.e. 51%) do not see the forest coz they’re too focused on the trees I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. drink dry red wine coz it will raise yer HDL. :) I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. any (almost all?) "drug"/supplements have negative side effects the more you take the more negative side effects you get afaik there are a few exceptions to this and some insulins and some thyroid meds may be in this category (both are hormones, insulin is complex (52 amino acids?) and thyroid is simple (1 amino acid) Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome to repeat: avoid taking meds long term (if you can) also, the standard cholesterol test has little or no corelation with possible heart/artery problems for a much better/new test see: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:4nJfR_fhGnoJ:www.msnbc.msn.com/i… (i went to www.google.com and searched on "cholesterol correlate heart attack") best, bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI p.s. assuming yer in the UK, you still have easy access to beef insulin, which is hands down the best for background insulin, and the R (CP’s "soluble") is also useful. :)

Martin, There’s a new medication, Zetia, which is appropriate for people who can’t take statins. It has brought total cholesterol down by about 40% while leaving my HDL very high. It works by blocking an enzyme used in the uptake of cholesterol in the gut. –Jenny Type 2 diabetes since 1998. Hba1c 5.7% Low Carbing for 5 years. 140 lbs (goal) Cut the "carbs" to respond to my email address. What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes Web Site http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures site http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

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I’ve probably missed most of the replies to this post…. But replying to the original question.. yes i have.

the original question (by a diabetic who is likely t1) was: <"Anyone on them, had to come off them" I’ve been using atorvastatin (Lipitor) for some time

"some time"? how many years did you use Lipitor for? and recently (after some horrifically high levels) the dose was doubled to 40mg a day. Very quickly afterwards the mild loss of feeling in my extremeities became much much worse. I lost feeling in all my toes and partially in my feet as well. I also started to get severe burning pains in my hands and my nerves are hyper sensitive. I read on the web that some people have reported this and stopped my statins to see if it made any difference. Well, it has.

*that* is interesting for what it’s worth, you may have an insulin allergy with one of these new analog insulins that you are using (aspart/NovoRapid and Levemir) also, i wasn’t aware that Levemir was now being offered commercially is this really true? if yes, in which coutry(ies) is Levemir now available? After a month of non use feeling is returning. At the moment the only anti cholesterol I’m using is the plant sterols found in Benecol foods. Am due a blood test soon for cholesterol so will see what effect that has had! Martin T2 since ‘98 Novorapid x 3 Levemir x 2

ok, diabetic for 6 years how long have you used insulin for? kindly give detail on what specific insulin(s) you’ve used. (for the last 6 years?) and dates too also, what were your last 3 HbA1c results? also, are you in the UK? bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI

Response:

Hi Willbill, Sorry, posted while very tired and didn’t give as much info as you might like. I’m terrible with dates though. My history is.. Overweight type 2 started on diet only in 1998, then tried metformin and later Glucobay. Didn’t tolerate the glucobays side effects at all well and went back onto metformin. Generally good control with hba1cs <5. Anyway following a severe cold Xmas 2002 developed uncontrollable bgs (33mmols/l +) and severe sickness with ketones +++ and admitted into hospital for diabetic ketoacidosis. Started on Mixtard 70/30 which although initally effective was totally useless for my chaotic lifestyle and moved to NovoRapid with NPH. Terrible problems with my bgs and bad hba1c of 12, so moved on to NovoRapid with Lantus. Didn’t tolerate Lantus (painful on injection) so now on Levemir. So far so good. Inject Levemir on split dose of 42u. As far as the cholesterol is concerned, my G.P is really concerned. My first test gave me a total cholesterol of approx 11 with very, very low good lipids and very high bad lipids. However, the results are unreliable because my triglycerides are off the scale. Had a retest as they suspected a faulty test and a second test was much better (but still too high) but not got the figures. clinic doctor moved me up to 40mg beginning of 2004. I started getting a little numbness in my fingers and toes but it was very slight and my control was pretty bad so I wasn’t blaming the drugs just my bad control. At the beginning of 2004 I noticed that the numbness was very severe and developed really awful hypersensitivity in my nerves. This was first diagnosed as a Mortons Neuroma as I could feel the nerves in the balls of my feet. but since then I get terrible pain from any pressure on the sides of my fingers and toes (where the nerves go). I mentioned all of this to my G.P and told him that I had read some information suggesting that the Lipitor *might* be causing it and that I was going to stop it for a while. Since stopping it I have definately noticed a change in the sensitivity of my fingers and the general numbness has gone. From my limited reading on the web, there is some doubt of the efficacy of statins to lower the amount of bad cholesterol and increase the levels of good cholesterol or affect triglycerides. It seems effective only for total cholesterol. I understand that plant sterols and phytosterols are much more effective in this respect. Clearly this is unresolved and I am looking for other ways of reducing my insulin requirement and my cholesterol. I might have found it in a different way! I have been acting as a volunteer labourer for a local landscape gardener/tree surgeon friend and he is working me very hard. I am combining this hard labouring with sensible eating and benecol. Hopefully my next test (imminent) will show improvement. Martin. I’ve been using atorvastatin (Lipitor) for some time "some time"?

I started on Lipitor approx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – how many years did you use Lipitor for? and recently (after some horrifically high levels) the dose was doubled to 40mg a day. Very quickly afterwards the mild loss of feeling in my extremeities became much much worse. I lost feeling in all my toes and partially in my feet as well. I also started to get severe burning pains in my hands and my nerves are hyper sensitive. I read on the web that some people have reported this and stopped my statins to see if it made any difference. Well, it has. *that* is interesting for what it’s worth, you may have an insulin allergy with one of these new analog insulins that you are using (aspart/NovoRapid and Levemir) also, i wasn’t aware that Levemir was now being offered commercially is this really true? if yes, in which coutry(ies) is Levemir now available? After a month of non use feeling is returning. At the moment the only anti cholesterol I’m using is the plant sterols found in Benecol foods. Am due a blood test soon for cholesterol so will see what effect that has had! Martin T2 since ‘98 Novorapid x 3 Levemir x 2 ok, diabetic for 6 years how long have you used insulin for? kindly give detail on what specific insulin(s) you’ve used. (for the last 6 years?) and dates too also, what were your last 3 HbA1c results? also, are you in the UK? bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI

Response:

I’ve probably missed most of the replies to this post…. But replying to the original question.. yes i have. I’ve been using atorvastatin (Lipitor) for some time and recently (after some horrifically high levels) the dose was doubled to 40mg a day. Very quickly afterwards the mild loss of feeling in my extremeities became much much worse. I lost feeling in all my toes and partially in my feet as well. I also started to get severe burning pains in my hands and my nerves are hyper sensitive. I read on the web that some people have reported this and stopped my statins to see if it made any difference. Well, it has. After a month of non use feeling is returning. At the moment the only anti cholesterol I’m using is the plant sterols found in Benecol foods. Am due a blood test soon for cholesterol so will see what effect that has had! Martin T2 since ‘98 Novorapid x 3 Levemir x 2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 34 years insulin dependant (I refuse to be a ‘type’ but AM dependent on insulin!), for the first time my cholesterol level has gone to 5.3 but as my HBA1C was also up at 8.5 – this can effect the cholesterol result. i’m in the USA and haven’t a clue as to what "5.3" means for a cholesterol level test i do have a clue on an HbA1c of 8.5 and while it’s not bad it does need work I also pass the grand old age of 50 next month 50 – 34 = you got diabetes at age 16. odds are yer a type-1 diabetic and my GP has immediately jumped on the "Statins" bandwagon – no other counselling or trying diets and levelling the HBA1C out – just says I need statins. avoid taking meds long term, other than stuff like insulin and thyroid hormone (both of which i take) fwiw, docs have to be intelligent to become docs, which tends to mean that they’re great on details; which means that they often (i.e. 51%) do not see the forest coz they’re too focused on the trees I’m not too happy about this idea, I think I should be given the opportunity to lower my cholesterol by natural means first. drink dry red wine coz it will raise yer HDL. :) I know its the Government who are behind pushing statins (a chemist told me) and that only adds to my lack of confidence in them!!! It appears that once on these, it’s a life thing, and I am also opposed to that unless 101% necessary. They are also not without complications. any (almost all?) "drug"/supplements have negative side effects the more you take the more negative side effects you get afaik there are a few exceptions to this and some insulins and some thyroid meds may be in this category (both are hormones, insulin is complex (52 amino acids?) and thyroid is simple (1 amino acid) Anyone on them, had to come off them or any conspiracy theorists out there…all viewpoints welcome to repeat: avoid taking meds long term (if you can) also, the standard cholesterol test has little or no corelation with possible heart/artery problems for a much better/new test see: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:4nJfR_fhGnoJ:www.msnbc.msn.com/i… (i went to www.google.com and searched on "cholesterol correlate heart attack") best, bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI p.s. assuming yer in the UK, you still have easy access to beef insulin, which is hands down the best for background insulin, and the R (CP’s "soluble") is also useful. :)

Response:

My history is.. Overweight type 2 started on diet only in 1998, then tried metformin and later Glucobay. Didn’t tolerate the glucobays side effects at all well and went back onto metformin. Generally good control with hba1cs <5. Anyway following a severe cold Xmas 2002 developed uncontrollable bgs (33mmols/l +) and severe sickness with ketones +++ and admitted into hospital for diabetic ketoacidosis.

ketoacidosis doesn’t often happen for type-2 diabetics. i’ve only seen one type-2 post about it happening to him where it was clear that he was a type-2 and that it did happen (i’ve posted/read misc.health.diabetes for the last 7 years) any chance you are a very slow onset type-1? very slow onset diabetes seldom happens (never?) for child onset (i.e. under 20), but does sometimes happen for adult onset (over 30) i’ll grant that your being overweight suggests that you are type-2, but there are some diabetics who are both autoimmune and have insulin resistance, and as far as i know the autoimmune issue takes precedence in which type you are Started on Mixtard 70/30 which although initally effective was totally useless for my chaotic lifestyle and moved to NovoRapid with NPH. Terrible problems with my bgs and bad hba1c of 12, so moved on to NovoRapid with Lantus. Didn’t tolerate Lantus (painful on injection) so now on Levemir. So far so good. Inject Levemir on split dose of 42u.

42u of Levemir in the morning and another 42u in the evening? plus meal insulin? how many total units of insulin do you presently take per day? also will you provide a clue of where you are? e.g. UK, or Europe, or Austrailia? i ask only because i wasn’t aware that Levemir is now offered commercially somewhere in the world As far as the cholesterol is concerned, my G.P is really concerned.

i’m not a doc, but i’ve run into this with one of my own docs for myself. my doc completely overlooked my excellent ratios and wanted me to go on statins. which is why i posted my comments (earlier in this thread) about being careful about taking meds long term unless you are very certain you need to do it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first test gave me a total cholesterol of approx 11 with very, very low good lipids and very high bad lipids. However, the results are unreliable because my triglycerides are off the scale. Had a retest as they suspected a faulty test and a second test was much better (but still too high) but not got the figures. clinic doctor moved me up to 40mg beginning of 2004. I started getting a little numbness in my fingers and toes but it was very slight and my control was pretty bad so I wasn’t blaming the drugs just my bad control. At the beginning of 2004 I noticed that the numbness was very severe and developed really awful hypersensitivity in my nerves. This was first diagnosed as a Mortons Neuroma as I could feel the nerves in the balls of my feet. but since then I get terrible pain from any pressure on the sides of my fingers and toes (where the nerves go). I mentioned all of this to my G.P and told him that I had read some information suggesting that the Lipitor *might* be causing it and that I was going to stop it for a while. Since stopping it I have definately noticed a change in the sensitivity of my fingers and the general numbness has gone.

i pumped insulin for 8 years (‘91-’98). the 1st 6+ years were with "human"-R in the pump, then 10 months with Humalog in the pump. after about 7 months with the Humalog, i started getting some truly strange symptoms, one of which was extremely ouchy finger tips of course, my doc wrote it off to my testing "too much" after another 3 months i ditched Humalog and went to pumping a 50/50 mix of beef/pork-R (my decision, not my docs). and no, i’m NOT saying that you have an insulin allergy, only that when strange things happen you have to look at *everything* you are doing and *all* of the meds you are taking btw, after ditching the Humalog it still took me another 6 months before finally discovering that it was an allergy with Humalog. oh, and btw, my ouchy fingertips disappeared in the 1st 10 days after getting rid of the Humalog. :) the reason i bring it up is that it is likely the last thing that your doc will think of, assuming he ever does think of it insulin allergy used to be a big deal 30+ years ago, but contining improvements to insulins (reduction of impurities), and inroduction of pure pork and synthetic "human" insulin (both of which are about equally good in so far as minimal allergy problems), we don’t hear much about insulin allergy anymore maybe that will change with these weird new analog insulins (of which you are using the two newest). given the not so lovely companies that make pharmaceuticals (and their BIG profits on these new analog insulins), we’ll be the last ones to hear about it (assuming that they in fact do have higher incidence of allergy (than "human" insulin)) From my limited reading on the web, there is some doubt of the efficacy of statins to lower the amount of bad cholesterol and increase the levels of good cholesterol or affect triglycerides. It seems effective only for total cholesterol. I understand that plant sterols and phytosterols are much more effective in this respect. Clearly this is unresolved and I am looking for other ways of reducing my insulin requirement and my cholesterol. I might have found it in a different way! I have been acting as a volunteer labourer for a local landscape gardener/tree surgeon friend and he is working me very hard. I am combining this hard labouring with sensible eating and benecol. Hopefully my next test (imminent) will show improvement.

i suggest you go out to www.google.com and do a search on: "cholesterol correlate heart attack" best, bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI

Response:

Hi Willbill, thanks for your reply. I’m 40 years old and living in the UK. I am only 5′6" and weigh 260 lbs which goes a long way to the diagnosis of T2 diabetes. Funny enough I remember well that I had been carrying around bottles of water the summer before I was diagnosed and my wife tells me I was bad tempered and very sweaty. I thought it came on came on quite suddenly as I had been drinking several litres of root beer while studying but my symptoms had been visible to everyone but me for some time! My first random blood test was 14 mmols/l (i think 250 in US measure). My insulin regimen is currently variable but has been Breakfast:: 1 x 45u Levemir and 1 x 40u Novorapid + 1g Metformin and 1x 100mg Losartan Potassium Lunch: 1 x 45u Novorapid Dinner 1x 45u Novorapid Night-time 1 x 45u Levemir + 1g Metformin + 40mg Atorvastatin ( * but I am not taking these at present) My doctor tells me that my cholesterol issues are due to how I was made, but i am taking steps to change my diet and lifestyle. Certainly my shape is changing rapidly with my work, in fact I feel I am losing a lot of weight. I would like to be back to the 160 lbs I was when in the army some 15 years ago!! Anyway, I have been using the plant sterols at the 3g level every day as recommended and certainly expect to see an improvement in my cholesterol levels. I have heard about beef/porcine insulins before from Old Al who suggested a beef lente and others and I pursued the issue with my clinic specialist.. However, my Diabetic consultant and the registrars are very reticent to even discuss them. They are very sold on human insulins and considered animal insulins as backward and not commonly used. I am very pleased the numbness as almost completely gone, but the sensitive nerves remains to a slightly lower level. I am definately going to bring this up with my specialist when I see him on the 29th of the month. The new registrar is fairly easy to discuss things with and is young enough perhaps to have a more open mind. Certainly I am thinking of avoiding heart attack and stroke so am taking the exercise and weightloss thing seriously. I gave up smoking some 8 years ago and hardly drink alcohol at all. Don’t know what else I can do!!!! bestest (especially for the season) Martin.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My history is.. Overweight type 2 started on diet only in 1998, then tried metformin and later Glucobay. Didn’t tolerate the glucobays side effects at all well and went back onto metformin. Generally good control with hba1cs <5. Anyway following a severe cold Xmas 2002 developed uncontrollable bgs (33mmols/l +) and severe sickness with ketones +++ and admitted into hospital for diabetic ketoacidosis. ketoacidosis doesn’t often happen for type-2 diabetics. i’ve only seen one type-2 post about it happening to him where it was clear that he was a type-2 and that it did happen (i’ve posted/read misc.health.diabetes for the last 7 years) any chance you are a very slow onset type-1? very slow onset diabetes seldom happens (never?) for child onset (i.e. under 20), but does sometimes happen for adult onset (over 30) i’ll grant that your being overweight suggests that you are type-2, but there are some diabetics who are both autoimmune and have insulin resistance, and as far as i know the autoimmune issue takes precedence in which type you are Started on Mixtard 70/30 which although initally effective was totally useless for my chaotic lifestyle and moved to NovoRapid with NPH. Terrible problems with my bgs and bad hba1c of 12, so moved on to NovoRapid with Lantus. Didn’t tolerate Lantus (painful on injection) so now on Levemir. So far so good. Inject Levemir on split dose of 42u. 42u of Levemir in the morning and another 42u in the evening? plus meal insulin? how many total units of insulin do you presently take per day? also will you provide a clue of where you are? e.g. UK, or Europe, or Austrailia? i ask only because i wasn’t aware that Levemir is now offered commercially somewhere in the world As far as the cholesterol is concerned, my G.P is really concerned. i’m not a doc, but i’ve run into this with one of my own docs for myself. my doc completely overlooked my excellent ratios and wanted me to go on statins. which is why i posted my comments (earlier in this thread) about being careful about taking meds long term unless you are very certain you need to do it My first test gave me a total cholesterol of approx 11 with very, very low good lipids and very high bad lipids. However, the results are unreliable because my triglycerides are off the scale. Had a retest as they suspected a faulty test and a second test was much better (but still too high) but not got the figures. clinic doctor moved me up to 40mg beginning of 2004. I started getting a little numbness in my fingers and toes but it was very slight and my control was pretty bad so I wasn’t blaming the drugs just my bad control. At the beginning of 2004 I noticed that the numbness was very severe and developed really awful hypersensitivity in my nerves. This was first diagnosed as a Mortons Neuroma as I could feel the nerves in the balls of my feet. but since then I get terrible pain from any pressure on the sides of my fingers and toes (where the nerves go). I mentioned all of this to my G.P and told him that I had read some information suggesting that the Lipitor *might* be causing it and that I was going to stop it for a while. Since stopping it I have definately noticed a change in the sensitivity of my fingers and the general numbness has gone. i pumped insulin for 8 years (‘91-’98). the 1st 6+ years were with "human"-R in the pump, then 10 months with Humalog in the pump. after about 7 months with the Humalog, i started getting some truly strange symptoms, one of which was extremely ouchy finger tips of course, my doc wrote it off to my testing "too much" after another 3 months i ditched Humalog and went to pumping a 50/50 mix of beef/pork-R (my decision, not my docs). and no, i’m NOT saying that you have an insulin allergy, only that when strange things happen you have to look at *everything* you are doing and *all* of the meds you are taking btw, after ditching the Humalog it still took me another 6 months before finally discovering that it was an allergy with Humalog. oh, and btw, my ouchy fingertips disappeared in the 1st 10 days after getting rid of the Humalog. :) the reason i bring it up is that it is likely the last thing that your doc will think of, assuming he ever does think of it insulin allergy used to be a big deal 30+ years ago, but contining improvements to insulins (reduction of impurities), and inroduction of pure pork and synthetic "human" insulin (both of which are about equally good in so far as minimal allergy problems), we don’t hear much about insulin allergy anymore maybe that will change with these weird new analog insulins (of which you are using the two newest). given the not so lovely companies that make pharmaceuticals (and their BIG profits on these new analog insulins), we’ll be the last ones to hear about it (assuming that they in fact do have higher incidence of allergy (than "human" insulin)) From my limited reading on the web, there is some doubt of the efficacy of statins to lower the amount of bad cholesterol and increase the levels of good cholesterol or affect triglycerides. It seems effective only for total cholesterol. I understand that plant sterols and phytosterols are much more effective in this respect. Clearly this is unresolved and I am looking for other ways of reducing my insulin requirement and my cholesterol. I might have found it in a different way! I have been acting as a volunteer labourer for a local landscape gardener/tree surgeon friend and he is working me very hard. I am combining this hard labouring with sensible eating and benecol. Hopefully my next test (imminent) will show improvement. i suggest you go out to www.google.com and do a search on: "cholesterol correlate heart attack" best, bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI

Response:

I’m 40 years old and living in the UK.

thank you for replying and interesting (!) you are the 1st person i’ve seen who is using Levemir! I am only 5′6" and weigh 260 lbs which goes a long way to the diagnosis of T2 diabetes.

that’s certainly overweight and certainly suggests that you may well be type-2 while i tend to agree with that, your bout with DKA (diabetic keto acidosisis) still suggests that you might be both autoimmune and insulin resistant if so, you’d be primarily type-1 (it’s simply a caution (on my part) and not a certain answer) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Funny enough I remember well that I had been carrying around bottles of water the summer before I was diagnosed and my wife tells me I was bad tempered and very sweaty. I thought it came on came on quite suddenly as I had been drinking several litres of root beer while studying but my symptoms had been visible to everyone but me for some time! My first random blood test was 14 mmols/l (i think 250 in US measure). My insulin regimen is currently variable but has been Breakfast:: 1 x 45u Levemir and 1 x 40u Novorapid + 1g Metformin and 1x 100mg Losartan Potassium Lunch: 1 x 45u Novorapid Dinner 1x 45u Novorapid Night-time 1 x 45u Levemir + 1g Metformin + 40mg Atorvastatin ( * but I am not taking these at present)

imho ("h" = honest/humble (i’m not a humble person)), you might give some serious thought to going to 2x of "human"-UL for background, and 1 or 2 shots of "human"-R for meals. as far as i know "human" insulin has the fewest allergy issues btw, i had 3 odd issues with Humalog (which i am clearly allergic to): 1) ouchy finger tips, 2) an increased need for total insulin through the day (!!), and 3) occasional *intense* nighttime (while asleep) upper body sweating and increased heart rate (!!). it took roughly 7 months of using Humalog before those symptoms showed up, so neither my doc, nor i, ever thought that it might be due to my new insulin (i.e. 100% Humalog via pump) by the way (btw), if you are allergic to either aspart or Levemir, you may well discover that you need a lot less insulin when using only "human" insulin, so be doggone careful if you move to using only "human" insulin!! My doctor tells me that my cholesterol issues are due to how I was made,

everything i’ve learned about cholesterol in the last 7 years sez that that is a definite maybe iow, you might want to consider getting a new doc, coz imho that doesn’t cut it as an "end" answer from yer doc but i am taking steps to change my diet and lifestyle. Certainly my shape is changing rapidly with my work, in fact I feel I am losing a lot of weight. I would like to be back to the 160 lbs I was when in the army some 15 years ago!! Anyway, I have been using the plant sterols at the 3g level every day as recommended and certainly expect to see an improvement in my cholesterol levels. I have heard about beef/porcine insulins before from Old Al who suggested a beef lente

imho, beef Lente is hands down the best background insulin ever made and the only one that can be used 1x (i’ve used it). and given that you’re in the UK that may well be an option to move to, but given the open question about whether or not you might have an insulin allergy issue (with these weird new analog insulins), i’d suggest moving to safer stuff, say to 2x of "human"-UL (imho better than 2x of Levemir) and with 1 or 2 shots of pork-R as your meal insulin (see: http://cppharma.co.uk for pork and/or beef) btw, "R" meaning Regular (USA term) (CP calls it "soluble") and others and I pursued the issue with my clinic specialist.. However, my Diabetic consultant and the registrars are very reticent to even discuss them. They are very sold on human insulins and considered animal insulins as backward and not commonly used. I am very pleased the numbness as almost completely gone, but the sensitive nerves remains to a slightly lower level.

which may (or may not) be due to insulin allergy (at least, in my experience) I am definately going to bring this up with my specialist

i hate to say it, but odds are that they won’t have a clue. :( when I see him on the 29th of the month. The new registrar is fairly easy to discuss things with and is young enough perhaps to have a more open mind. Certainly I am thinking of avoiding heart attack and stroke so am taking the exercise and weightloss thing seriously. I gave up smoking some 8 years ago and hardly drink alcohol at all.

you might want to rethink alcohol repeated *real* sceintific studies this past 7+ years have again and again come to the conclusion that having "some" alcohol in your diet is a sigificant plus; preferrably dry red wine (which will not have any effect on your b/g so long as you don’t have more than 2 glasses of it) Don’t know what else I can do!!!! bestest (especially for the season) Martin.

bestest to you too Martin. :) bill t1 since ‘57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 1x, simple MDI

Response:

IR and premature/underweight babies

admin — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

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Question:

Well then, Now I have second reason to blame my mum for my DM2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter, I wasn’t chubby as a child, in fact, I was seriously undersized so I was always the smallest kid in the class and was only 4′ 10" when I was 11 years old. I reached a normal size only at adolescence. But even though I controlled my weight very well, I developed gestational diabetes during my first pregnancy though I was a foxy 118 lbs when it started. In my late 40s my weight suddenly went completely out of control though I was eating the same way as I always had. My usual diet strategies failed, and about a year later I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. At that point, cutting carbs got things back under control, but it’s a constant ongoing struggle to keep under control and I sometimes think with wonder of what I used to be able to eat without a second thought. If I go over 1400 calories for more than a few days now, I’m guaranteed to pack on real weight. — Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.7 . Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Jenny’s new site: What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm x-no-archive: yes Peter, The findings of this study seem to me to fit right in with previous findings that maternal malnutrition correlated with the later development of high levels of diabetes in offspring. Low birth weight babies often result when mothers diet during pregnancy or are anorectic. Though our family has a history of diabetes none of my first degree relatives has it, so I suspect mine resulted from my mother’s anorectic eating. She weighed 98 lbs when she got pregnant with me and used to brag about how she didn’t gain weight. She is 5" 6"! Were you a chubby, slightly overweight, child ? I was always small and thin up to about age 8 and then became chubby until my late teens when I lost weight and got fit. I remember thinking back then, when I came across the word metabolism in biology lessons, that I had a different metabolism to my friends and that some kind of switch had flicked on in me about age 8. I wasn’t dxed dm until age 42, when I had been overweight again for about six years. I’m going to ask my sisters whether I was premature or underweight. I was born towards the end of a period of rationing in Britain after WW2.

Response:

Peter, I wasn’t chubby as a child, in fact, I was seriously undersized so I was always the smallest kid in the class and was only 4′ 10" when I was 11 years old. I reached a normal size only at adolescence. But even though I controlled my weight very well, I developed gestational diabetes during my first pregnancy though I was a foxy 118 lbs when it started. In my late 40s my weight suddenly went completely out of control though I was eating the same way as I always had. My usual diet strategies failed, and about a year later I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. At that point, cutting carbs got things back under control, but it’s a constant ongoing struggle to keep under control and I sometimes think with wonder of what I used to be able to eat without a second thought. If I go over 1400 calories for more than a few days now, I’m guaranteed to pack on real weight. — Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.7 . Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Jenny’s new site: What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Peter, The findings of this study seem to me to fit right in with previous findings that maternal malnutrition correlated with the later development of high levels of diabetes in offspring. Low birth weight babies often result when mothers diet during pregnancy or are anorectic. Though our family has a history of diabetes none of my first degree relatives has it, so I suspect mine resulted from my mother’s anorectic eating. She weighed 98 lbs when she got pregnant with me and used to brag about how she didn’t gain weight. She is 5" 6"! Were you a chubby, slightly overweight, child ? I was always small and thin up to about age 8 and then became chubby until my late teens when I lost weight and got fit. I remember thinking back then, when I came across the word metabolism in biology lessons, that I had a different metabolism to my friends and that some kind of switch had flicked on in me about age 8. I wasn’t dxed dm until age 42, when I had been overweight again for about six years. I’m going to ask my sisters whether I was premature or underweight. I was born towards the end of a period of rationing in Britain after WW2.

Response:

Peter, The findings of this study seem to me to fit right in with previous findings that maternal malnutrition correlated with the later development of high levels of diabetes in offspring. Low birth weight babies often result when mothers diet during pregnancy or are anorectic. Though our family has a history of diabetes none of my first degree relatives has it, so I suspect mine resulted from my mother’s anorectic eating. She weighed 98 lbs when she got pregnant with me and used to brag about how she didn’t gain weight. She is 5" 6"! — Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.7 . Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Jenny’s new site: What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Were you a premature / underweight baby or have you had a such a child ? If so this latest NZ research is a bit of a downer ….. such babies are more likely to develop Insulin Resistance in childhood. Got to check with your mum or your birth records if in existence. But is it a chicken and egg situation – is the IR the result of premature/underweright birth or is the premature/underweight birth due to something already being wrong in the foetal metabolism ? As usual … "more research needed" please. "CONCLUSIONS: Like children who were born at term but who were small for gestational age, children who were born prematurely have an isolated reduction in insulin sensitivity, which may be a risk factor for type 2 diabetes mellitus.

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… bstract&list_uids=15548778 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A bit worrying was the finding that hyperinsulinemia had already started in the premature children at age 4 – 10 .. "As compared with controls, both groups of premature children had a compensatory increase in acute insulin release". If the Beta cells are working overtime as early as age 4 it might explain why T2s present in middle age with 50% of them already gone.

Response:

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately the Atlantic Ocean separates us. I have every reason to believe she has regular checkups in B Columbia. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Well then, Now I have second reason to blame my mum for my DM2

Response:

Bad news for T2's on insulin

admin — Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Medscape Chronic Insulin Use Increases Risk of Colorectal Cancer in Type 2 Diabetics

I read this and decided that, although the results were statistically significant, the risks were still low enough not to worry about. Of course, I’m not on insulin… Nicky. — HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/81/72 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

Medscape Chronic Insulin Use Increases Risk of Colorectal Cancer in Type 2 Diabetics Oct. 1, 2004 – Chronic insulin therapy significantly increases the risk of colorectal cancer (CRC) in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus (DM), according to the results of a retrospective cohort study published in the October issue of Gastroenterology. "Insulin is a known in vitro growth factor," writes Yu-Xiao, MD, from the Division of Gastroenterology at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in Philadelphia, Pennsulvania, and colleagues. "Furthermore, in animal models, exogenous insulin injection stimulates the growth of colorectal cancer precursors." According to the authors, clinical studies have shown hyperinsulinemia to be independently associated with increased risk of CRC. Further, studies show that type 2 DM is linked to a 30% to 40% increased risk of developing CRC. To explore the possibility that chronic exogenous insulin therapy may increase the risk of colorectal cancer in type 2 diabetics, they identified 24,918 patients in the U.K.’s General Practice Research Database (GPRD) having at least three years of CRC-free follow-up after a diagnosis of type 2 DM. Patients included in the exposed group (n = 3,160) had a minimum of one year of CRC-free insulin therapy, while those in the control group (n = 21,758) did not require insulin. The investigators confirmed 125 cases of colorectal cancer over the course of the study (exposed group, 9,157 person-years; control group, 85,556 person-years). In a nested case-control analysis, each case was matched with up to 10 control subjects on year of birth, calendar period, and duration of follow-up in the database prior to CRC diagnosis. The incidence of colorectal cancer was significantly higher in the exposed group compared with the control group (197 cases/100,000 person-years vs. 124 cases/100,000 person-years). After adjustments for age and sex, the hazard ratio (HR) for development of CRC associated with a duration of insulin therapy longer than one year was 2.1 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.2 – 3.4; P = .005). Adjustment for duration of diabetes yielded similar results (HR, 1.9; CI, 1.1 – 3.2, P = .02). Results of the nested case-control analysis showed that continuous insulin use for a period of more than three years was associated with a tripled risk of CRC (adjusted odds ratio [OR], 3.4; 95% CI, 1.5 – 7.7; P = .004) compared with noninsulin users. The risk of CRC was found to increase with duration of exposure to insulin use, the odds ratio increasing by 1.21 for each additional year of insulin use (95% CI, 1.03 – 1.42; P = .02). Those with fewer than three years of insulin therapy had an adjusted OR for CRC of 1.4 (95% CI, 0.6 – 2.9; P = 0.5), while those with three to five years of insulin exposure were at significantly higher risk (OR, 2.9; 95% CI, 1.1 – 7.7; P = .03). Those with more than five years of insulin use were at the greatest risk of developing CRC (OR, 4.7; 95% CI, 1.3 – 16.7; P = .02). "[C]hronic insulin therapy appears to increase significantly the risk of colorectal cancer," the authors write. "[T]hese results highlight the need for adherence to existing colorectal screening guidelines in insulin-treated type 2 diabetes patients." Pointing out that the magnitude of association found in this study is similar to that of a family history of colorectal cancer, the authors suggest that future studies explore the cost-effectiveness of a more stringent CRC screening program for patients with type 2 diabetes requiring insulin. The study was supported by a grant from the National Institutes of Health. Gastroenterology. 2004;127:1044-1050 Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD

Response:

…..help….

admin — Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

SHALOM I ask you to read this letter till the end! Don’t treat to my words with indifferens. On Your understanding it will depend my fate and the fate of my child! I am Byalik Oleg , date of birth 1964 , pssport No ,313690364 repatriated to Israel in March 1999 with my family from Ukraine(Kiev). However on 28 of September 2000 my wife left me with with child and went to other man in Kiev. She robbed me and my child , took money from personal savings , left us with our debts and went out Israel. Ten years I have suffered from diabetes (diabetes mellitus type I) , I got three injection of insulin per day . After the endured stress I find myself in hospital with diagnosis : diabetic ketoacidosis (hiperlipidemia). I am 65% Physicaly Inable. In situation , I found myself , I was never. We have no relatives and friends in Israel. I shall struggle for our with my child surviving till the last breth. But at present moment I am not imagining how I and my child can go out of this financial bankruptcy. My money that I get from Bituah Leumi were cut to 1236 shekels for month.Now it’s even not enough to buy food and pay taxes. Because of my Physical inability I can not work. My son that is going to be an Israely soldier in a year can not be hungry. We have nothing to pay for a room and us will expose on street. Therfore I apply to you , asking to help as you can. If you think that this is some kind of scam I can send you my documents that can proof personal information with your request. If you cant help, please send this to any people that you know that can help me. Contact telefon 972 546504203 Our adress is Israel, Haifa, 33136 Arlozorov 10a, Bialik family. Whith respect Bialik Oleg