Diabetes Talking

Question:

:: Here is the original press release with contact info from the :: researchers at OSU. :: :: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/osu-irt032403.php :: :: The critical thing to keep in mind is that if you can eat these bars :: without stalling, you can also eat a couple hundred calories’ worth :: of things like pasta, pound cake, mangoes, and other foods with the :: same glycemic index. My calculations based on the article suggest :: that the glycemic index of the bars comes in at 54. Personally, I’d :: rather eat the mango and cake–though they do bad things to my blood :: sugar, just like the bars do.. :: :: My question about the methodology (and that of others on the :: diabetes group) comes about because it is unclear to us how they got :: a valid insulin level using the "capillary finger stick" method of :: blood collection. This is not a method of analyzing insulin any of :: us had ever before heard about. :: That seems like a valid concern to me.  I have  a suggest for you and the others.  Write to the researchers.  We know their university and their names (I recall them being in the article). Go the university website, do a search and get an e-mail.  Write and ask.  I’ve love to know….

Response:

I like to eat a low carb bar before I go workout because quite frankly if I don’t have some carbs before hand I don’t feel good about half way through my workout which is usually around two hours long. I know I tried the Zone bars but they did not work for me, they did not satisfy my appetite the way the low carb bars do. Dick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it? Study seems to show low carb bars are the lesser evil.  Since I only eat them a couple times a week, and then only when I can’t get a regular low carb meal, I don’t see a problem.  However, I know some people use them for snacks daily. Might be of more concern in that case. BillJ

Response:

Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it?

<SNIP http://www.medscimonit.com/pub/vol_9/no_2/3230.pdf

Response:

Thanks for the link to the actual article.  Reading the article made the results MUCH more significant. The findings were that though the blood sugar did not rise all that much after eating 60 gms of an Atkins Advantage bar, the bar drove up insulin levels rose surprisingly high. The insulin level was only 26% lower than the insulin response to white bread though the blood sugar was 71% lower. This completely disposes of the idea that the Atkins Advantage Bar does not raise insulin levels. It also explains why these things give many people cravings!  When you have more insulin than you have carbs the result is usually a drop in blood sugar which for most people results in gnawing hunger. Even worse, that high level of insulin means that the fat you are eating is going to go RIGHT to your fat cells. — Jenny 168.5/146/145 Second Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it? <SNIP http://www.medscimonit.com/pub/vol_9/no_2/3230.pdf

Response:

Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it? Study seems to show low carb bars are the lesser evil.  Since I only eat them a couple times a week, and then only when I can’t get a regular low carb meal, I don’t see a problem.  However, I know some people use them for snacks daily. Might be of more concern in that case. BillJ

That’s how I use them, too — only when nothing else is available or as fast. — Bob ctviggen at rcn dot com

Response:

Here is the original press release with contact info from the researchers at OSU. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/osu-irt032403.php The critical thing to keep in mind is that if you can eat these bars without stalling, you can also eat a couple hundred calories’ worth of things like pasta, pound cake, mangoes, and other foods with the same glycemic index. My calculations based on the article suggest that the glycemic index of the bars comes in at 54. Personally, I’d rather eat the mango and cake–though they do bad things to my blood sugar, just like the bars do.. My question about the methodology (and that of others on the diabetes group) comes about because it is unclear to us how they got a valid insulin level using the "capillary finger stick" method of blood collection. This is not a method of analyzing insulin any of us had ever before heard about. — Jenny 168.5/146/145 Second Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it? Study seems to show low carb bars are the lesser evil.  Since I only eat them a couple times a week, and then only when I can’t get a regular low carb meal, I don’t see a problem.  However, I know some people use them for snacks daily. Might be of more concern in that case. BillJ I found this on the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup: Note that it is funded by the Atkins center, involves only 20  people, and it is not clear whether what is being measured is blood glucose or insulin. That said, what the study apparently shows is that the blood sugar response to Atkins bars, while better than the response to White Bread, was a whole lot worse than the response to plain chicken, suggesting that the claim that insulin is not being raised by Atkins Bars is baloney. Insulin Response To Some Energy Bars Is Out Of Balance MARCH 2003 – COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study reports that energy bars with low or moderate levels of carbohydrates may actually not help dieters lose weight as they promise to do. Proponents of several diet plans – such as the Atkins and Zone diets – say low or moderate carbohydrate foods lead to less of an insulin spike in the blood after meals, which helps lead to people burning more fat and losing more weight. However, this new study found that energy bars advertised as having low or moderate levels of carbohydrate don’t actually reduce insulin levels in the blood as much as expected. "None of the manufacturers of these low and moderate carbohydrate snack foods have the data to support the claim that their products do keep after-meal insulin levels low," said Steven Hertzler, the study’s lead author and an assistant professor of medical dietetics in the School of Allied Medical Professions at Ohio State University. "Our study shows these energy bars lead to an insulin response closer to what we see with high carbohydrate bars." The bottom line is that these energy bars may not contribute to weight loss, at least not in the way that manufacturers are advertising they do, Hertzler said. The makers of these reduced carbohydrate bars add more protein and fat to the ingredients, but the overall energy content of such bars is similar to that of a higher carbohydrate energy bar. Hertzler conducted the research with Yeonsoo Kim, a doctoral student in Ohio State’s School of Allied Medical Professions. Their study appears in a recent issue of the journal Medical Science Monitor. Hertzler and Kim asked 20 adults to eat one of five test meals on five separate days: a low-carbohydrate energy bar (Atkins Advantage Bar); a moderate-carbohydrate energy bar (Balance Bar); a high-carbohydrate energy bar (Power Bar); white bread, which is nearly all carbohydrate; and broiled, boneless chicken breast, which contains no carbohydrate. The low carbohydrate Atkins bar supports the Atkins diet. The moderate-carbohydrate Balance Bar fits the nutritional philosophy of the Zone diet, which recommends a diet of 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent fat and 30 percent protein. The participants were instructed to fast for 12 hours prior to each meal. About 10 minutes before eating, blood samples were taken from each subject using the capillary finger-stick method. This sample gave the researchers baseline readings of blood glucose and insulin levels. Additional blood samples were taken periodically up to two hours after the subjects began eating their meals. Since the researchers knew what kind of insulin response to expect from eating white bread, they used this meal to compare the insulin responses caused by the other four meals. Compared to white bread, eating the low-carbohydrate bar lowered insulin by about a quarter. Insulin levels rose by more than a third after participants ate the moderate-carbohydrate energy bar, and increased nearly three-quarters after eating the high-carbohydrate energy bar. Eating chicken caused the lowest insulin response – resulting insulin levels were more than three-quarters lower than those caused by white bread. The high-carbohydrate energy bar affected insulin levels just as the researchers expected it would. These kinds of snack foods cater to people who want a sharp increase in insulin following an intense workout, Hertzler said, as insulin helps muscles efficiently use glucose. Nor is it a shock that eating chicken drastically lowered insulin levels, since chicken lacks carbohydrate. The high insulin response caused by eating the moderate-carbohydrate bar was the most surprising, Hertzler said, adding that it might not be carbohydrates alone that raised insulin levels. "Carbohydrate and protein might work together to raise insulin levels," he said. "Sports nutritionists think that an athlete who eats a combination of carbohydrate and protein after a workout might be better off than consuming either nutrient by itself. "Eating carbohydrate and protein together causes an insulin response that favors the replacement of carbohydrate stores in muscles and in muscle protein repair immediately after exercise. However, high insulin levels also impair the ability to burn fat, an effect that dieters don’t want." Nearly two out of three Americans are overweight, according to the latest National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Diets such The Zone and the Atkins diet claim that eating less carbohydrate is one answer to losing pounds. Some diet companies even advertise that their products will keep insulin levels low, said Hertzler, again adding that, in most cases, the evidence simply isn’t there. "If you’re on one of these diets and eat the right amount of calories necessary for weight loss, your insulin levels might be lowered," he said. "But someone following a diet high in carbohydrate and low in fat can lose weight, too." This study was supported in part by Atkins Nutritionals, Inc., maker of the Atkins Advantage Bar. Neither Hertzler nor Kim has any link to the company beyond the scope of this study. Source: OSU — Jenny 168.5/146/145 Second Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath

Response:

Very interesting.  I’d really like to see the data itself instead of the writer’s interpertation.  Is there a link to it? Study seems to show low carb bars are the lesser evil.  Since I only eat them a couple times a week, and then only when I can’t get a regular low carb meal, I don’t see a problem.  However, I know some people use them for snacks daily. Might be of more concern in that case. BillJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I found this on the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup: Note that it is funded by the Atkins center, involves only 20  people, and it is not clear whether what is being measured is blood glucose or insulin. That said, what the study apparently shows is that the blood sugar response to Atkins bars, while better than the response to White Bread, was a whole lot worse than the response to plain chicken, suggesting that the claim that insulin is not being raised by Atkins Bars is baloney. Insulin Response To Some Energy Bars Is Out Of Balance MARCH 2003 – COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study reports that energy bars with low or moderate levels of carbohydrates may actually not help dieters lose weight as they promise to do. Proponents of several diet plans – such as the Atkins and Zone diets – say low or moderate carbohydrate foods lead to less of an insulin spike in the blood after meals, which helps lead to people burning more fat and losing more weight. However, this new study found that energy bars advertised as having low or moderate levels of carbohydrate don’t actually reduce insulin levels in the blood as much as expected. "None of the manufacturers of these low and moderate carbohydrate snack foods have the data to support the claim that their products do keep after-meal insulin levels low," said Steven Hertzler, the study’s lead author and an assistant professor of medical dietetics in the School of Allied Medical Professions at Ohio State University. "Our study shows these energy bars lead to an insulin response closer to what we see with high carbohydrate bars." The bottom line is that these energy bars may not contribute to weight loss, at least not in the way that manufacturers are advertising they do, Hertzler said. The makers of these reduced carbohydrate bars add more protein and fat to the ingredients, but the overall energy content of such bars is similar to that of a higher carbohydrate energy bar. Hertzler conducted the research with Yeonsoo Kim, a doctoral student in Ohio State’s School of Allied Medical Professions. Their study appears in a recent issue of the journal Medical Science Monitor. Hertzler and Kim asked 20 adults to eat one of five test meals on five separate days: a low-carbohydrate energy bar (Atkins Advantage Bar); a moderate-carbohydrate energy bar (Balance Bar); a high-carbohydrate energy bar (Power Bar); white bread, which is nearly all carbohydrate; and broiled, boneless chicken breast, which contains no carbohydrate. The low carbohydrate Atkins bar supports the Atkins diet. The moderate-carbohydrate Balance Bar fits the nutritional philosophy of the Zone diet, which recommends a diet of 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent fat and 30 percent protein. The participants were instructed to fast for 12 hours prior to each meal. About 10 minutes before eating, blood samples were taken from each subject using the capillary finger-stick method. This sample gave the researchers baseline readings of blood glucose and insulin levels. Additional blood samples were taken periodically up to two hours after the subjects began eating their meals. Since the researchers knew what kind of insulin response to expect from eating white bread, they used this meal to compare the insulin responses caused by the other four meals. Compared to white bread, eating the low-carbohydrate bar lowered insulin by about a quarter. Insulin levels rose by more than a third after participants ate the moderate-carbohydrate energy bar, and increased nearly three-quarters after eating the high-carbohydrate energy bar. Eating chicken caused the lowest insulin response – resulting insulin levels were more than three-quarters lower than those caused by white bread. The high-carbohydrate energy bar affected insulin levels just as the researchers expected it would. These kinds of snack foods cater to people who want a sharp increase in insulin following an intense workout, Hertzler said, as insulin helps muscles efficiently use glucose. Nor is it a shock that eating chicken drastically lowered insulin levels, since chicken lacks carbohydrate. The high insulin response caused by eating the moderate-carbohydrate bar was the most surprising, Hertzler said, adding that it might not be carbohydrates alone that raised insulin levels. "Carbohydrate and protein might work together to raise insulin levels," he said. "Sports nutritionists think that an athlete who eats a combination of carbohydrate and protein after a workout might be better off than consuming either nutrient by itself. "Eating carbohydrate and protein together causes an insulin response that favors the replacement of carbohydrate stores in muscles and in muscle protein repair immediately after exercise. However, high insulin levels also impair the ability to burn fat, an effect that dieters don’t want." Nearly two out of three Americans are overweight, according to the latest National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Diets such The Zone and the Atkins diet claim that eating less carbohydrate is one answer to losing pounds. Some diet companies even advertise that their products will keep insulin levels low, said Hertzler, again adding that, in most cases, the evidence simply isn’t there. "If you’re on one of these diets and eat the right amount of calories necessary for weight loss, your insulin levels might be lowered," he said. "But someone following a diet high in carbohydrate and low in fat can lose weight, too." This study was supported in part by Atkins Nutritionals, Inc., maker of the Atkins Advantage Bar. Neither Hertzler nor Kim has any link to the company beyond the scope of this study. Source: OSU — Jenny 168.5/146/145 Second Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath

Response:

I found this on the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup: Note that it is funded by the Atkins center, involves only 20  people, and it is not clear whether what is being measured is blood glucose or insulin. That said, what the study apparently shows is that the blood sugar response to Atkins bars, while better than the response to White Bread, was a whole lot worse than the response to plain chicken, suggesting that the claim that insulin is not being raised by Atkins Bars is baloney. Insulin Response To Some Energy Bars Is Out Of Balance MARCH 2003 – COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study reports that energy bars with low or moderate levels of carbohydrates may actually not help dieters lose weight as they promise to do. Proponents of several diet plans – such as the Atkins and Zone diets – say low or moderate carbohydrate foods lead to less of an insulin spike in the blood after meals, which helps lead to people burning more fat and losing more weight. However, this new study found that energy bars advertised as having low or moderate levels of carbohydrate don’t actually reduce insulin levels in the blood as much as expected. "None of the manufacturers of these low and moderate carbohydrate snack foods have the data to support the claim that their products do keep after-meal insulin levels low," said Steven Hertzler, the study’s lead author and an assistant professor of medical dietetics in the School of Allied Medical Professions at Ohio State University. "Our study shows these energy bars lead to an insulin response closer to what we see with high carbohydrate bars." The bottom line is that these energy bars may not contribute to weight loss, at least not in the way that manufacturers are advertising they do, Hertzler said. The makers of these reduced carbohydrate bars add more protein and fat to the ingredients, but the overall energy content of such bars is similar to that of a higher carbohydrate energy bar. Hertzler conducted the research with Yeonsoo Kim, a doctoral student in Ohio State’s School of Allied Medical Professions. Their study appears in a recent issue of the journal Medical Science Monitor. Hertzler and Kim asked 20 adults to eat one of five test meals on five separate days: a low-carbohydrate energy bar (Atkins Advantage Bar); a moderate-carbohydrate energy bar (Balance Bar); a high-carbohydrate energy bar (Power Bar); white bread, which is nearly all carbohydrate; and broiled, boneless chicken breast, which contains no carbohydrate. The low carbohydrate Atkins bar supports the Atkins diet. The moderate-carbohydrate Balance Bar fits the nutritional philosophy of the Zone diet, which recommends a diet of 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent fat and 30 percent protein. The participants were instructed to fast for 12 hours prior to each meal. About 10 minutes before eating, blood samples were taken from each subject using the capillary finger-stick method. This sample gave the researchers baseline readings of blood glucose and insulin levels. Additional blood samples were taken periodically up to two hours after the subjects began eating their meals. Since the researchers knew what kind of insulin response to expect from eating white bread, they used this meal to compare the insulin responses caused by the other four meals. Compared to white bread, eating the low-carbohydrate bar lowered insulin by about a quarter. Insulin levels rose by more than a third after participants ate the moderate-carbohydrate energy bar, and increased nearly three-quarters after eating the high-carbohydrate energy bar. Eating chicken caused the lowest insulin response – resulting insulin levels were more than three-quarters lower than those caused by white bread. The high-carbohydrate energy bar affected insulin levels just as the researchers expected it would. These kinds of snack foods cater to people who want a sharp increase in insulin following an intense workout, Hertzler said, as insulin helps muscles efficiently use glucose. Nor is it a shock that eating chicken drastically lowered insulin levels, since chicken lacks carbohydrate. The high insulin response caused by eating the moderate-carbohydrate bar was the most surprising, Hertzler said, adding that it might not be carbohydrates alone that raised insulin levels. "Carbohydrate and protein might work together to raise insulin levels," he said. "Sports nutritionists think that an athlete who eats a combination of carbohydrate and protein after a workout might be better off than consuming either nutrient by itself. "Eating carbohydrate and protein together causes an insulin response that favors the replacement of carbohydrate stores in muscles and in muscle protein repair immediately after exercise. However, high insulin levels also impair the ability to burn fat, an effect that dieters don’t want." Nearly two out of three Americans are overweight, according to the latest National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Diets such The Zone and the Atkins diet claim that eating less carbohydrate is one answer to losing pounds. Some diet companies even advertise that their products will keep insulin levels low, said Hertzler, again adding that, in most cases, the evidence simply isn’t there. "If you’re on one of these diets and eat the right amount of calories necessary for weight loss, your insulin levels might be lowered," he said. "But someone following a diet high in carbohydrate and low in fat can lose weight, too." This study was supported in part by Atkins Nutritionals, Inc., maker of the Atkins Advantage Bar. Neither Hertzler nor Kim has any link to the company beyond the scope of this study. Source: OSU — Jenny 168.5/146/145 Second Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath

Response:

:: I found this on the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup: :: :: Note that it is funded by the Atkins center, involves only 20 :: people, and it is not clear whether what is being measured is blood :: glucose or insulin. The study was funded in part by Atkins Center (good for them).  Also, the article clearly says "blood glucose and insulin." :: :: That said, what the study apparently shows is that the blood sugar :: response to Atkins bars, while better than the response to White :: Bread, was a whole lot worse than the response to plain chicken, :: suggesting that the claim that insulin is not being raised by Atkins :: Bars is baloney. Also, remember that it is a "low-carb" bar, not a zero-carb bar, which would be more equivalent to chicken.  So if the bar is low-carb and not zero-carb, I would expect more of an insulin response from it than I would from chicken.  So where is this claim that low-carb bars don’t raise insulin levels at all?  The fact is that have less of an impact than bread, moderate-carb bars, and high-carb bars (which seems to be a statement in support of SA, too).  So, low-carb bars are still the better choice in many cases.  And if one believes that calories don’t count, then that is a problem bigger than raising insulin levels.

Response: