Diabetes Talking

Question:

I didn’t mean to imply I would shun all meds, just the totally unnecessary crap. Without actually making a list, you have no idea how much crap i have put up with this year. I have seen alot of drs. and non of them agree with the other. The full story on ACE inhibitors isn’t told, but I have been taking one. And so on … oh yeah, there was the Elavil for my neuropathy … one dr. gave me a prescription and when the other saw the prescription, said it was a high enough dose to calm a BIG horse. I am not a big horse. Said it was 10 times the dose shewould have given me. I decided to wait it out and not take it. I never filled it .. glad now …. my nerve endings musta got word and I got better. I attribute it to exercise. Experiments with supplements, have for me, been a experiment in spending money and not much else. Controlled bg’s are everything in this game. I don’t advocate shrugging off meds for everyone but the post I replied to made sense to me. If it is not necessary …. why ? My original diagnosing endo was adamant on this subject. If you don’t need it don’t take it. He wouldn’t give me some of the designer pills and newfangle so called remedies and I did just fine. I fully agree and accept that not everyone can. I did. I know others that have. My original endo did not find it necessary to bombard my body with stuff that was just going to become more of a habit and a crutch. Some folks are alot worse off than me, i agree with that and I would never tell anyone to stop meds. The key for me was getting my diet controlled nd my exercise at a level to help me control bg’s. Everything I have read and experienced on a personal level told me what I need to know about my body and how it responds. The last dr. had me on so many crazy things I didn’t know if I was coming or going half the time. Life is better without chemicals for me. Lord knows somewhere down the road some nastier side effect will rear it’s ugly head and I don’t want that. My friend told me the other day the meaning of managed care ….. "you go and learn everything you can. Arm yourself with what you  need to know and know your body. Decide on an intelligent level what is good for you, then manage to take care of yourself."                         I don’t want to be like the other people I know who are taking pills they don’t even know about, or know what they are doing to their bodies. I don’t want to be doing much else except exercise and diet and cautious living. Makes sense to me. Somewere down the road, if it ceases to work I will agree only to a regimen based on the lowest aceptable level of chemical control. Rainbow                                              

Response:

It’s good to hear from you, Rainbow. Unfortunately it is very necessary for a person such as one with diabetes to do his/her own research about *any* medication that they are are about to be prescribed, or are taking, or some new medication they are not taking. On one hand, you could, as you said, become a cash cow for the pharmaceutical industry, and be bedevilled with all sorts of side effects and degeneration. On the other hand, though, when not taking any medications you could develop some complication which may have been avoided had you been taking a certain medicine (such as an ACE Inhibitor, perhaps). The only way you can be certain is to do a lot of research. Definitely not by adopting a blanket attitude towards all medication. This is where newsgroups such as this are extra important. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It has always been my goal to do without drugs. I went thru a very difficult period where I was not able to be off them. Problem was resolved. Now I take nothing. I am going to stop all other meds. At least for now. Why ? Cost, side effects and I don’t really need them. One of the drugs I take is only a "maybe" or "insurance" policy against something dastardly that might never occur. My original diagnosing endo took me off everything he thought I didn’t need, the moment they proved useless. After him, I had troubles with drs. who tried to give me every substance that you can roll up in to a pill and some herbs. Since none of it made sense and there was no clear reason, I decided to discontinue each one step by step, not just cold turkey. The cost to me was outrageous for stuff I really didn’t need. I’ll tell you what one patient advocate style dr. told me ….." the longer you can delay using anything to medicate yourself, the better, you may be able to control the disease without meds, and if you can, you don’t need them." Now I mean if you can do without and it is to your benefit and you will not be harming yourself to quit, why not. Just make sure you aren’t shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I am not speaking from the standpoint that I have had my dr. problems this year. Just what makes sense. There is no need to become a "cash cow" for the medical industry if there is no clear reason to.  Whatever level of diabetes i have is not as bad as others and for that I will remain grateful. Not everyone could do diet and exercise forever.

– Henry M. Type II, Diagnosed 1994, Melbourne, Australia

Response:

It has always been my goal to do without drugs. I went thru a very difficult period where I was not able to be off them. Problem was resolved. Now I take nothing. I am going to stop all other meds. At least for now. Why ? Cost, side effects and I don’t really need them. One of the drugs I take is only a "maybe" or "insurance" policy against something dastardly that might never occur. My original diagnosing endo took me off everything he thought I didn’t need, the moment they proved useless. After him, I had troubles with drs. who tried to give me every substance that you can roll up in to a pill and some herbs. Since none of it made sense and there was no clear reason, I decided to discontinue each one step by step, not just cold turkey. The cost to me was outrageous for stuff I really didn’t need. I’ll tell you what one patient advocate style dr. told me ….." the longer you can delay using anything to medicate yourself, the better, you may be able to control the disease without meds, and if you can, you don’t need them." Now I mean if you can do without and it is to your benefit and you will not be harming yourself to quit, why not. Just make sure you aren’t shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. I am not speaking from the standpoint that I have had my dr. problems this year. Just what makes sense. There is no need to become a "cash cow" for the medical industry if there is no clear reason to.  Whatever level of diabetes i have is not as bad as others and for that I will remain grateful. Not everyone could do diet and exercise forever.

Response:

115 is normal.  Seems to me the meds are working.  You can ask him of course if you can stop taking the meds. But why?  It is not like you are taking a sulph…

Why stop taking the meds? Because they cost money? Because it’s not always easy to remember to take them? Because the fewer drugs I’m on, the happier I’ll be? Because they all have side effects? Alban

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m currently on 4 mg. Avandia, once a day. In the two and a half months since I was put on it, I’ve started working out a lot, both with weights and with aerobic stuff; in addition to the muscles I’ve put on, I’ve lost weight. No highs, no lows with regard to blood glucose levels (and in particular, even the post-prandials have stayed closer to norms – rather than 130’s, I’ve had readings around 115, even after a bowl of oatmeal). In other words, things seem to be going quite well. I wonder, therefore: since Avandia is known for not producing lows, how the hell can I or my doctor tell when it’s okay for me to stop taking it? What are the signs (if any) of normality that show up while on medication that indicate normality will remain once off the medication? Alban

   Avandia treats insulin resistance.  Insulin resistance causes T2’s to generate high levels of insulin to handle their bG’s. The high levels of insulin cause a serious risk of premature heart attack in T2’s.   The test of your ability to stop using Avandia is the amount of insulin you are producing in response to your daily diet.  If you go off Avandia, control your bG’s well,  but still need to produce high levels of insulin, you are asking for trouble.  I have no idea how an endo can figure out the answer to your question.  I imagine some sort of imaginative C-peptide test might work.  Of course, a couple of months after you go off insulin resistance drugs, your insulin resistance might increase and you would be back to the "Diabetes. . .the silent killer" routine, even if your bG’s looked good.  Enough to drive you nuts.  Sometimes I am glad I am a T1 and don’t have to make any of these choices.  Regards Old Al (T2 since. . .oops. . .T1 since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)   A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m currently on 4 mg. Avandia, once a day. In the two and a half months since I was put on it, I’ve started working out a lot, both with weights and with aerobic stuff; in addition to the muscles I’ve put on, I’ve lost weight. No highs, no lows with regard to blood glucose levels (and in particular, even the post-prandials have stayed closer to norms – rather than 130’s, I’ve had readings around 115, even after a bowl of oatmeal). In other words, things seem to be going quite well. I wonder, therefore: since Avandia is known for not producing lows, how the hell can I or my doctor tell when it’s okay for me to stop taking it? What are the signs (if any) of normality that show up while on medication that indicate normality will remain once off the medication? Alban

115 is normal.  Seems to me the meds are working.  You can ask him of course if you can stop taking the meds. But why?  It is not like you are taking a sulph… — Ronnie Ruff www.26thandq.dns2go.com Let’s play Twister let’s play Risk I’ll see ya in heaven if you make the list REM 1991

Response:

I’m currently on 4 mg. Avandia, once a day. In the two and a half months since I was put on it, I’ve started working out a lot, both with weights and with aerobic stuff; in addition to the muscles I’ve put on, I’ve lost weight. No highs, no lows with regard to blood glucose levels (and in particular, even the post-prandials have stayed closer to norms – rather than 130’s, I’ve had readings around 115, even after a bowl of oatmeal). In other words, things seem to be going quite well. I wonder, therefore: since Avandia is known for not producing lows, how the hell can I or my doctor tell when it’s okay for me to stop taking it? What are the signs (if any) of normality that show up while on medication that indicate normality will remain once off the medication?

One thing the Dr. will look for is numbers that are low but stable for a long period of time.  I wasn’t taking Avandia.  Was taking Glucophage and prior to that, Armaryl.  Got frequent hypos with both of them.  And when my HbA1c was 4.3, he said I needed to stop taking it. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

Response:

I’m currently on 4 mg. Avandia, once a day. In the two and a half months since I was put on it, I’ve started working out a lot, both with weights and with aerobic stuff; in addition to the muscles I’ve put on, I’ve lost weight. No highs, no lows with regard to blood glucose levels (and in particular, even the post-prandials have stayed closer to norms – rather than 130’s, I’ve had readings around 115, even after a bowl of oatmeal). In other words, things seem to be going quite well. I wonder, therefore: since Avandia is known for not producing lows, how the hell can I or my doctor tell when it’s okay for me to stop taking it? What are the signs (if any) of normality that show up while on medication that indicate normality will remain once off the medication? Alban

Response: